Caelum questions, both themes.

[fahdiz]

I see...so in this scenario, reanimated Skeletons/Soulless/etc. (either battlefield summons or ritual reanimations) + Gryphons = RotR's Version of Wingless + Mammoth, yes?

That would certainly force a different style of play. Having to rely on flying troops for more than just raiding, harrassment, and commander-killing would make things difficult...although the fact that you could play a bless strategy towards Raven Guards might help make up for some of the difference.

[ March 05, 2004, 01:30: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

More or less. Just depends. Since the cost of the Harab Elder is so high, you couldn't be building much in the way of both Gryphons and Harab Elders.

You would have to rely on Storm Guards/Raven Guards + Gryphons in order to compete. The slower movement of the Gryphon wouldn't allow it quite the movement of most of Caelum troops (Letting them jump *everywhere*).

It would also force the smart use of Storm. You don't have nearly the battle power as base Caelum, since you don't have Quickness with your Orb Lighting, but lets you have a chance to get a 3rd Death (for say Terror) or a second Earth to be able to forge Earth Boots then Dwarven Hammer (something that Base Caelum has no chance for).

It is hard to fill the gap of the mammoths, as they are an incredible unit and very cost effective for use against indies and high amounts of elite units from opponents.

I'd have to be tested, but it certainly would make you think differently from base Caelum, but have the options where it is not considered 'totally useless'.

[fahdiz]

Well, if you got a third Death on one of your Harab Elders you could also just scrounge up some Behemoths...and that's a heck of a Mammoth replacement.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by fahdiz:
Well, if you got a third Death on one of your Harab Elders

Which is easily done with a Skull Staff.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Zen:
flying units generally have a much greater chance to rout regardless. Have him eat horses would be fine too, +5 Supply Usage

I haven't noticed that flying units have a tendency to rout that's greatly above that of ground units, although they are much more SUCCESSFUL at routing, as they simply disappear off the field: Perhaps the routing tendency is contributed due to the fact that many fliers are rather fragile and easily damaged, and you don't mass them quite as much because they're larger and more expensive units. Of course, it's also possible to deploy fliers in much larger squads without running into blockage problems, which helps to offset this. I haven't noticed any particularly extreme tendency of fliers to rout. It's far worse with Jotuns, they rout really easily due to a combination of all of the above.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
It's far worse with Jotuns, they rout really easily due to a combination of all of the above.

I disagree (of course). Jotuns have better-than-average morale and tend to have decent staying power, as long as they're not massively swarmed, which would be a problem for any nation anyway.

[Zurai]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I haven't noticed any particularly extreme tendency of fliers to rout. It's far worse with Jotuns, they rout really easily due to a combination of all of the above.

I very rarely see my Jotuns rout. Even their militia has 11 morale, and the other units all have at least that much, most have more. That combined with their high HP and extreme ease of routing the *enemy* by causing massive casualties means they rarely retreat, in my experience.