Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline

[JaydedOne]

Originally posted by rabelais:
(cribbed from an earlier post of mine)

Water mages can take 1 troop with them for every magic level they have minus one.

(i.e. the first level sustains the mage itself.)

Items, thetis' blessing and the water cult theme are the traditional methods for keeping your favored landlubbers breathing.

IMHO the number of troops should be increased quite a bit. The water fringe benefit is weak, relative to the other paths. Even x5 or x10 wouldn't be outlandish.

Alternatively (or in addition) it could add to defense, as fire/air add to att/prec.


SCUBA Rabe

I agree with these suggestions personally. I could see a x5 bonus, but not a x10 as that'd negate a bit too much of the advantage water races get by being water races.

The add to defense would work in the alternative, as it seems that Water's the only one of the four elemental magics that doesn't get a boost that way.

[LintMan]

I noticed that Voice of Apsu and Voice of Tiamat for some reason cannot be cast on water provinces from land (I don't know if you have to be in the water province of just underwater).

But in any case, all the other magic path's search spells work fine in water provinces remotely from land, so I'm puzzled why, - especially - water sites cannot be searched remotely in water provinces when all other paths can. Maybe for VoT, that might be reasonable since its special and covers a few magic types, but this seems an unfair penalty of VoA.

For new spells, it'd be nice if water had maybe 1-2 other useful summons, perhaps ones that weren't cold-based or water only, so that they'd be more generally useful. Maybe a big mid to high level amphibious sea creature that could be summoned on land, or something like (amphibious) water nymphs.

[JaydedOne]

A side thing that'd be very cool for water races is the equivalent of the water-breathing army items for land races. I know the ring of the fish will allow for commanders to tread on land (which makes for a happy Aboleth) but I don't know of any items that allow aquatic troops to come ashore. It sure would make those other Water summoning spells (like Call Kraken) far more palatable, particularly on maps like Inland where 90% of your fighting's on land anyway.

If there's already an item like this, just clue me in and ignore my ignorance.

[Gateway103]

Originally posted by Yossar:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gateway103:
Water Shield (combat spell)

Except that there's already a spell called that.

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My bad, I meant to augment the existing Water Shield with the effects I listed (I'll edit my post). Sorry if that was unclear. As it stands now, Water Shield is not as useful as say Air/Fire/Astral Shield. But giving it the property I suggested, move it up a level or two in research, and I think it would be more versatile.

-Gateway103

[Endoperez]

Originally posted by Gateway103:
Some ideas,

Water Shield (combat spell, improved Version)
- Protect target from fire (50%), as well as 20% of all attacks will miss (imagine a cyclonic barrier of water with high pressure, capable of deflecting incoming attacks. Less effective in hot dominion 2+ (say -5% per heat scale >= 2)
- If used in cold 2+ dominion, result is an Ice Shield that protects from fire (50%), and increase Armour Protection by (4 + cold scale)

Would you have it castable only under water or in land too?

Drowning Bubbles (combat spell)
- Single target, target must make MR save or loses 15hp. Receive 2pt damage if successfully resisted. Useless on amphibians, aquatic, or undead. Can't be casted underwater.

Sailor's Death (3W/ Thaum 4): AreaOfEffect spell, throw mr. or die/ take heavy damage as your lungs are filled with water. No effect if resisted. Does not work on creatures that can breat water or do not need to breath.

Hail (combat spell)
- BLast a medium sized area with falling icicles. Damage is considered magical and armour piercing.

This and the Ice Wall spells are copies of existing Earth spells... I don't think your idea was to make Water Earth. Also, Earth has mud-kind of spell (Earth Bind?), so you really have to choose which ones to drop out.

Summon Geckos (ritual)
- Summon giant size 4 Geckos with recuperation, regeneration, poison attack, poison immunity, high natural protection but low defense skills.
- Summon amount is 4+

Boosted up Bog Beasts? These just have recuperation, regeneration and high protection, and come in faster, and seemingly don't require any Nature at all even though they have many nature-only abilities... Wouldn't it be easier to mod Bog Beasts to be little stronger, and maybe change the summoning to need only one pick in Nature? That would mainly boost those nations that can get Water mages with randoms, but also anyone who winds Jade Amazons... You might not want that.

Healing Fluid (combat spell)
- Heals 6~10+ points, plus curing poison & paralysis.

Healing Shower (combat spell)
- Heals 6~10+ points on an area of 3+, plus curing poison& paralysis.

Seems to be taken from Nature (and/or Astral) magic. Check Healing Light (or Rays?), and Healing Mist(s).

Cleansing (ritual)
- Each casting has a 10% chance of curing the Diseased affliction [SNIP]

Again, healings of Dominions II are restricted for nature. Anti-poisons go with nature too, although for poisoning the battlefield you need water.

Waterway (ritual)
- Allows mages and her troops to travel from one coastal province to another. Cannot be casted in inland provinces

Here is the spell that shines! I didn't really like the others (almost all are already in the game, in one way or other, or are already covered by other magics), but this is something simple yet elegant that gives land-based nations a spell they will happily pour gems into, alhtough this depends from situation. Pocket ship is better though, but everybody can't have it.

Also, if this can be cast UNDER WATER this gives the two (three?) water nations a way to move their forces quckly around. The effect is lessened by the fact that both current nations are strong in Astral, but this is still a very nice spell, IMHO.

Now, I would suggest that you check what spells exist and then post some new ideas. Your ideas were not bad, they just already exist! You said water should have some theme no other paths deal with, so make up few and send them here! I'm interestedt in reading them.

[HotNifeThruButr]

When you want to design water spells, maybe you have to ask yourself, "what does the element of water and cold represent"

While some spells in circles and schools are spread willy-nilly all over the place, you can see that some themes exist, especially in the elemental spells. Fire is tied with aggression and anger, so you see many fire spells in Evocation and none in construction. Earth is more about fortitude and creation, so it's dominant in construction and you get many unbreakable units from it. Air is most closely tied to themes of deceit and mobility, since you get illusion spells like Phantasmal Warrior, Mists of Deception, and Cloud Trapeze.

What does water represent?

Edit: I feel like The Architect, spouting a bunch of crap and nonsense that's supposed to make people try hard to figure on. Also, I'd like to say that I can't think of a thing that water and cold reflects, therefore water seems to be a scattered and weak discipline.

[ April 17, 2004, 21:18: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ]

[Kel]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
What does water represent?

Clams !

- Kel