Humanoid Pretenders are too expensive

[Cohen]

Well, I don't believe that having a reduced cost in casting rituals is so effective to get them unless it's very high.

An probably the best would be the one with Conjuration Bonus ... to have lot of troops, or if he returns, the Abysyan Great Warlock, with blood bonus.

[Vynd]

Well like everyone I agree that it is hard to find a reason to take one of the human Pretenders. (Although it took me awhile to figure that out.) Personally, I like the idea of making them better while also making them more unique. I mean right now they're basically all the same Pretender except for one piddling "special" ability that in many cases you'll hardly use. So I like the idea of giving them more/different paths to start with, or giving them more in the way of special abilities (like PDF has suggested except moreso).

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Vynd:
Well like everyone I agree that it is hard to find a reason to take one of the human Pretenders. (Although it took me awhile to figure that out.) Personally, I like the idea of making them better while also making them more unique. I mean right now they're basically all the same Pretender except for one piddling "special" ability that in many cases you'll hardly use. So I like the idea of giving them more/different paths to start with, or giving them more in the way of special abilities (like PDF has suggested except moreso).

By "Special" abilities that you'll hardly ever use, I guess the great druid's bonus to casting vinemen / ogres? Nice bonus in a sense, but using a pretender to summon vinemen is such an incredible waste that it's rarely going to be done.

Might be different if the druid started with Vine Men / Ogres as an intrinsic spell. Or if the bonus was in the form of a unique misc item, that could be handed off to another nature mage.

[Kel]

IMO, giving them a single path bonus would make them one trick ponies which, to me, is kind of against their nature as variety casters. Maybe if they had a small bonus to every path ?

Some ideas:
1) Automatically site search the province they are in during the appropriate phase (IE, without spending an extra turn to do it).
2) When they spend a turn to search a site, all adjacent provinces get a half strength search, rounded down.
3) Can use turn to remote search a province.

- Kel

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Slygar:
(such as the bog mummy and lich) but being so obviously superior in almost every way is pretty ridiculous.

The bog mummy and lich cost 110, and require 40 points to start a new oath of magic. They have 0 combat ability, and the only thing useful about them is their high starting death magic and immortality. There's absolutely no reason to make them 200 points.

Originally posted by Kel:
Some ideas:
1) Automatically site search the province they are in during the appropriate phase (IE, without spending an extra turn to do it).
2) When they spend a turn to search a site, all adjacent provinces get a half strength search, rounded down.
3) Can use turn to remote search a province.

I don't think that this would fill the gap and would make them autorainbows. If something like this is going to be implemented I would hope it would be after a certain point of paths (Like 9).

Enchantress : 20% bonus for Enchantment
Druid : 20% for Conjuration
Sage : 20% for Construction (or Forge bonus ?)
Frost Father : 20% for Alteration
(etc, fill the rest )

This is a good idea, I don't know if they should get 20% and if anyone should get a Forge Bonus it probably should be the Archmage. As that is the one real 'cross-magic bonus' that could be used for any paths.

[Vynd]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
By "Special" abilities that you'll hardly ever use, I guess the great druid's bonus to casting vinemen / ogres? Nice bonus in a sense, but using a pretender to summon vinemen is such an incredible waste that it's rarely going to be done.

Yes, exactly. That, the Freak Lord's trample ability, and the Frost Father having Cold Resistance, are almost worthless, seems to me. The Enchantress's free pearl every turn is nice enough, I'll grant you that. And the Arch Mage's "special" of having three strategic move is OK. Neither really compares with things like immortality or lots of hit points and attack power.

But my point is that not only are the various human-type pretenders not very good, they are also all but identical. So if I ran the show around here, I'd kill two birds with one stone by making each of the human pretenders good at something (something useful, not summoning vine men), instead of having all of them be jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none rainbow mages with slightly different color text.