Golden Age Arcoscephale

[PvK]

Seems to me that there are some nations and units and tactics that are harder to learn to take advantage of than others, but that once they're learned, they are just as good, or better, compared to the easy and obvious nations/units/tactics.

Myrmidons don't look bad to me at all. They look quite good, really, as slow well-armored heavy infantry with not so heavy weapons.

Those look like the most durable chariots I've ever seen. Most chariots are very fragile, but are good for inducing panic in the rear. Most chariots aren't designed to be shock troops, although as was pointed out, with buffs, GE chariots could be quite strong.

The flying warriors are probably like most flying units - easy to get killed, but deadly if used in sufficient numbers and timed properly.

Yes, the Shedu can fatigue out and be swarmed to death, and becomes weaker in comparison to late game units. And the astral is a two-sided ability due to magic duels. I'd say it's a dang good thing those weaknesses are there, however! Remember what I said about numbers being important to rear-flyers? Try combining a flying shedu with a whole bunch of flying troops set to guard commander... suddenly it's much much much harder to overwhelm the shedu or calmly deal with the fliers. Try to strike the shedu before it buffs up with astral and other spells? Good luck with a bunch of fliers guarding him while he does so!

Meanwhile, the research bonus, the mages, the skeptics, the healers, etc., are also great things that can really help out when used well.

If there are several players who haven't figured out how to use something effectively, by all means try mods to make them better. But with players who know how to use the old Versions, they may end up being overpowered, and after the players who didn't know, get some experience, they may start to learn the subtler tricks too.

It's at that point that the mod changes to remove things that got the units killed when they were used bluntly, may end up with units that have too few weaknesses when used skillfully.

I don't claim to have figured everything out, or to have much GE Arco experience or anything. I have done a bit with fliers though and have seen them be extremely powerful or extremely weak, hinging mostly on numbers and timing. When I see people saying they think tough fliers are too weak, I tend to think they probably saw them strike with too few and at the wrong time or against the wrong target. Fliers who can do well even when sent in low numbers against strong foes at the wrong time, seem like they could be too strong.

PvK

[Stormbinder]

Without geting deeper into the arguments, I would like to say that I agree with Blitz's assesment that GE in general is weaker than the standart Arco in cometitive MP. A pity, because I think this is one of the most interesing national themes in priciple. Maybe it'll get some love from devs in the future, as Blood of humans and other themes got in the past.

[ June 19, 2004, 01:46: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
I know myrmidon are just (the "just" part, more or less) ant people, but I think they're also supposed to be the ultimate soldiers in terms of discipline. I mean, they're crazy, you tell one of them to fight the whole Abysian army, and he'll be out there. You tell on to jump, he asks you how high, what angle, and whether or not to take wind resistance into account.

I thought it could be something unique about myrmidon, to set them apart from all the other elite, slow infantry.

Just a thought.

"myrmidon A faithful follower who carries out orders without question." - Dictionary.com

And as Scott rightly pointed out, they're half-ant half-man. Thus formerly mindless beings that were given a brain. An interesting way to simulate this would be to give them 30 morale.

And, since ants come with some natural protection, probably raise the Myrmidons' base prot high enough to give them the natural equivalent to a 'full leather' or 'full ring mail' armor - that should be around ~10 I guess.

That should be enough to make them a very distinctive unit on their own.

[HJ]

Slightly OT:
In Greek myth, Myrmidons (from Greek myrmex = ant) were the people of Aiacos, father of Pelleus and grandfather of Achilles. Aiacos was one of Zeus' favorite sons, and he asked his father to give him a people that are as dilligent as the ants he saw climbing on the tree nearby, so Zeus turned those ants into men. They are not halfmen, just men who are attributed the qualities of ants (dilligence, bravery, unity, etc.).

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by HJ:
They are not halfmen, just men who are attributed the qualities of ants (dilligence, bravery, unity, etc.).

Yep, I know the story - my house is filled with essays on mythologies from all around the world from cellar to roof!

I didn't meant halfmen in the sense that minotaurs are half-bull half-man in their physical shape. Just that, as former ants that were turned into men, they might share attributes from both species.

[HotNifeThruButr]

nit picky

[HJ]

If that bothers you, you're probably playing a wrong game.