Devil Review

alexti · #1 October 3rd, 2004, 01:21 AM

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Boron said:

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alexti said:
I think you can win vs impossible AI reliably, but you need to play different strategies than you'd use vs humans in MP. For sure, AI will try to swarm you early on. It's not that bad on choke-pointed maps like Cradle of Zen, but on open wrap-around map, like Inland the beginning is really tough. I usually go for low-attrition strategy, basically some plan that would allow me to beat AI hordes with minimal losses quite soon. Important part is to plan carefully, so that you can use one AI (or indies) as a shield vs another.

It really depends a lot on which nation you play

.
If you play ermor / pan cw then even impossible Ai is not so good .
I haven't played it but i think Ctis Miasma will work very well against Ai too .
If you play Ryleh or Atlantis and hide in the sea and just clamhoard then you can easy win too of course .

But if you try to play a "normal" nation or even a weaker one like Tien Chi then the ai gives you a hard time

.

I think it's more of knowing how to play particular nation. Not that I've tried all of them. Do you have any particularly hard settings and nation in mind?

Cohen · #2 October 3rd, 2004, 01:35 AM

Wind Ride IMO is fine as it is.
It's A5, and requires 10 Air Gems to be cast. It's a good spell, but it's fine. It could kill a commander, and however if you've many commanders you can even wind ride the wrong commander (I've wasted so many gems in trying to Wind Ryde some Ermorian Dusk Elders or such, ending up to catch some new created Mound Kings that popped out as spawn in that province).
Ghost Rider could kill an entire Army, or SCs too if unprepared. It costs 5 Death Gems, and it's damn good.
In fact in my MOD Ghost Riders have an increase in gem cost.

Peter Ebbesen · #3 October 3rd, 2004, 06:38 AM

Cohen,
Ghost Riders is a level 9 spell. As such, it is supposed to be very, very, good.

alexti · #4 October 3rd, 2004, 11:36 AM

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Cohen said:
Ghost Rider could kill an entire Army

I wonder what that Army was supposed to fight if it can't defeat Ghost Riders? GR is level 9, so it should have been expecting to fight some serious opposition. GR are pretty good (if you cast 5 or so sets of them) at kicking out gems and killing off fodder from the Armies, but otherwise, they're just a tool to hunt down some annoying raiders, or to take down some overly well organized PD.

Cainehill · #5 October 3rd, 2004, 12:06 PM

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alexti said:

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Cohen said:
Ghost Rider could kill an entire Army

I wonder what that Army was supposed to fight if it can't defeat Ghost Riders? GR is level 9, so it should have been expecting to fight some serious opposition. GR are pretty good (if you cast 5 or so sets of them) at kicking out gems and killing off fodder from the Armies, but otherwise, they're just a tool to hunt down some annoying raiders, or to take down some overly well organized PD.

Or to take down two pretenders in two turns, when people are stupid enough to have their pretenders out solo with poor equipment long after Ghost Riders has been researched.

One had the nerve to "declare war" by popping his pretender on top of my newly discovered fort.

Best of all - the first was killed even _after_ I wiped out my own PD with one casting of GR.

Truper · #6 October 3rd, 2004, 12:49 PM

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alexti said:

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Cohen said:
Ghost Rider could kill an entire Army

I wonder what that Army was supposed to fight if it can't defeat Ghost Riders? GR is level 9, so it should have been expecting to fight some serious opposition. GR are pretty good (if you cast 5 or so sets of them) at kicking out gems and killing off fodder from the Armies, but otherwise, they're just a tool to hunt down some annoying raiders, or to take down some overly well organized PD.

I've seen them do some rather amazing things. I once had 4 castings of Ghost Riders wipe out 3 Angelic Hosts, an Ivy King with a largish stack of Vine Ogres, and a newly summoned Lamia Queen (I remember thinking at the time that if I'd been able to script the Lamia Queen I would have survived, although it would still have been costly). This was quite some time ago, and I've learned a lot since then, but compute the relative value for yourself.

There was a large thread on this subject way back when. My only comment at the time was: "4 pages on *this*?", but now I wouldn't mind seeing Ghost Riders be made a bit more expensive.

Cainehill · #7 October 3rd, 2004, 12:54 PM

On the other hand, I've spent about 12 castings of GR on one R'lyan army - mostly Vine Ogres, some Illithids, and about 10 mage/priest commanders. 12 GRs, as many as 4 at one time, plus two armies (including powerful artifacts in one), and I only now have it whittled down to killing strength where I can dispose of the artifacts in order to reforge them.

Cohen · #8 October 3rd, 2004, 02:04 PM

I've seen GR killing fully equipped SCs.
Simply their Life Draining swords doesn't work against them (not that it is a bad thing). And thus this would imply that the SC act as solo.
But for 5 or perhaps 10 D.Gems, being able to kill an SC, I think it's too much.
Dunno how much it will change if the GR cost is 8 D.Gems now, but in the long run there's a difference.

alexti · #9 October 3rd, 2004, 03:09 PM

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Cohen said:
I've seen GR killing fully equipped SCs.
Simply their Life Draining swords doesn't work against them (not that it is a bad thing). And thus this would imply that the SC act as solo.
But for 5 or perhaps 10 D.Gems, being able to kill an SC, I think it's too much.
Dunno how much it will change if the GR cost is 8 D.Gems now, but in the long run there's a difference.

Well, if SCs have decided to travel alone, they were asking for it I guess. Of course, you can get anything killed by pretty much anything. I've seen Moloch and 2 fully equipped Arch Devils killed by a bunch of PD and black hawks. (always take care of a safe escape route ;->)

But in the situation when the players remember about Ghost Riders, GR are not that good, at least not for killing armies. To some extent they're similar to Flames from the Sky, wrathful skies, rain of stones etc which can demolish careless armies. If anything, it's easier to protect from GRs than from the mentioned spells.

Stormbinder · #10 October 4th, 2004, 04:38 AM

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Cainehill said:

On the other hand, I've spent about 12 castings of GR on one R'lyan army - mostly Vine Ogres, some Illithids, and about 10 mage/priest commanders. 12 GRs, as many as 4 at one time, plus two armies (including powerful artifacts in one), and I only now have it whittled down to killing strength where I can dispose of the artifacts in order to reforge them.

Heh. Ghost Riders are totally useless against good Illhids army. You are lucky that your opponent was likely not very expereinced with playing R'leh, or your GR attacks would be just waste of death gems. Remember, only GR's commanders are not mindless (and they don't have high enough MR and hitpoints), so Illhids can kill them very quickly, if there are enough if them and if his army would be positioned and scripted appropriately. He should get at least 3 full valleys of mindbalsting your undead commanders before engaging onto melee, 4 if you tried to attack him underwater. And by that time all your GR's cavalery would be disolving due to lack of undead leadership.