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March 2nd, 2005, 02:37 PM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 1,449
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Re: Fixing PD?
Quote:
Jurri said:
One Sauromancer costs 180g plus one province's (with castle and lab) allotment of commanders per turn, 20 PD costs 210g... The sauromancer will lose against many nations' PDs and beat some others, so it sounds about right cost-wise. Unless for some reason one wanted to emphasize defense over offense.
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But when you buy 20 PD you will get much more than only one sauromancer, you get 20 units and two priests and a commander, which together cost much less than 210 gold, and the PD version doesnt cost upkeep or requires supplies!
You could also look at it from another angle, it only costs 20g to increase PD from 19 to 20, and that little increase is what you need to get that sauromancer.
While I'd really like to see PD made better, your ideas go a bit too far.
Maybe they should only follow the "tiers" idea, where PD 1-10 are crappy units, PD 11-20 are slightly better etc.
__________________
I'm in the IDF. (So any new reply by me is a very rare event.)
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March 2nd, 2005, 02:45 PM
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National Security Advisor
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Eastern Finland
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Re: Fixing PD?
I have no idea about balance. However, that would be no 20gp Arch Theurg. It would be costly, but I don't have that handy Provincial Defence Cost Calculator so I can't tell how much more expensive it would be.
I posted that example in the hopes of someone doing a mod to correct or "correct" the provincial defences. Both would help the discussion.
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March 2nd, 2005, 03:03 PM
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Second Lieutenant
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Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Fixing PD?
Province defence costs N*(N+1)/2 gold, where N is the total PD you want.
As things currently stand, PD is variably good for different groups. I'm quite fond of Atlantis PD under water (and even above water if I have magic troops like Mindless Ones lying around that I want to participate in battles), an I'm quite fond of Caelum PD.
Some nations, notably Machaka and Man get PD that even in large numbers is only vaguely capable of defending itself from Scouts. I'm not sure if that's a balance point or just dumb. Remember though, capitols start with 25 PD for free, and there are events that will raise that by five or ten.
If you make PD too good, it will be really hard to siege people and Wind Ride will become even more awesome than it already is.
PD Costs:
1 - 1
2 - 3
3 - 6
4 - 10
5 - 15
6 - 21
7 - 28
8 - 36
9 - 45
10 - 55
11 - 66
12 - 78
13 - 91
14 - 105
15 - 120
16 - 136
17 - 153
18 - 171
19 - 190
20 - 210
Very generally, the first 10 costs 55, the second ten costs an additional 155, the third 10 costs an additional 255, and so on and so on.
-Frank
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March 2nd, 2005, 03:06 PM
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Captain
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Join Date: May 2004
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Re: Fixing PD?
Quote:
Agrajag said:
Quote:
Jurri said:
One Sauromancer costs 180g plus one province's (with castle and lab) allotment of commanders per turn, 20 PD costs 210g... The sauromancer will lose against many nations' PDs and beat some others, so it sounds about right cost-wise.
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But when you buy 20 PD you will get much more than only one sauromancer, you get 20 units and two priests and a commander, which together cost much less than 210 gold, and the PD version doesnt cost upkeep or requires supplies!
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Ummm, I just wanted to comment on Panther's gripe about sauromancers beating PDs on their own. In fact the exact opposite you read me to mean  That is to say, I don't think it's too terrible that a 180g sauromancer can beat a 210g Province Defense by himself, so perhaps no radical changes are necessary.
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March 2nd, 2005, 03:22 PM
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Major
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
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Re: Fixing PD?
Ah, but the sauromancer can move around, haul armies, cast rituals, research and is quite versatile. The PD just sits there doing nothing, waiting to be slaughtered by practically anything. Doesn't every single C'tis player build another sauromancer rather than 20 PD in most situations? The only true benefit of PD is to catch enemy spies if it can and help stop the hawk or wolf spell.
That is definitely a good point above made by Frank about making it hard to seige people if PD got too good. I once attacked an enemy who had 116 PD in a province, unbeknownst to me. My meager army of a couple of mages with maybe 20 devils and some random vine ogres and other Abysian infantry killed well over half of that huge PD before I lost everything. Had the enemy routed, I even could have won the battle with my smallish army. And that was over 8K gold he invested in that much PD.
PD certainly cannot slow invaders like watch towers can, which is why people usually spam towers and not PD.
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