Random Picks and Modding...

[Agrajag]

Scott Hebert said:
Perhaps you can give examples of certain abilities that are better on 'better' commanders?

Just as a simple example, take this none-existing unit:
HP 1
Attack 30
Defence 1
Strength 30
Protection 1
AP 30
and this unit:
HP 16
Attack 16
Defence 16
Strength 16
AP 16

According to the additive system, both are exactly the same, while it is obvious that the second is a much better unit.
as another example you can take the first unit and up its HP, Defence and Protection to 30, according to the additive system that unit is now almost twice as strong as before, but according to the multiplicitive system it is 27000 times better, which IMO is a better represntation. (Okay, I realize 27000 is a bit too high, but you can scale down the results to recieve more normal values.)

[Scott Hebert]

I see where you're coming from, but (IMO) I don't think I have to worry about it. After all, I doubt anyone is going to try to make the first unit, right?

And then again, there's always extenuating circumstances. Give that 30 Att, 30 Str guy Etherealness and Luck, and... well, his low def/prot/hp was just mitigated to a large degree.

I'm not saying your example isn't instructive, but do you have an example from the game that is this distorted?

[Endoperez]

Would these values be counted before or after adjusting the equipment? As an example, Ulmish Lord Guardian will get prot 20 but -8 or so def with his equipment.

[Oversway]

One commander factor that I don't see mentioned (but may have missed) is slots. Maybe it doesn't matter so much since most commanders have either humanoid or horseman slots.

Does the mounted tag seem to be factored into the cost in the regular game? Perhaps it is that mounted commanders also have other good stats, but they always seem rather expensive.

[Scott Hebert]

Oversway said:
One commander factor that I don't see mentioned (but may have missed) is slots. Maybe it doesn't matter so much since most commanders have either humanoid or horseman slots.

I do plan to see whether or not slots make a difference. Again, the horseman 'bootless' issue will be wrapped up in the mounted tag.

Does the mounted tag seem to be factored into the cost in the regular game? Perhaps it is that mounted commanders also have other good stats, but they always seem rather expensive.

As mounted seems to increase AP in combat (and its encumbrance avoidance), I do intend to evaluate commanders on their 'mountedness'.

[Scott Hebert]

Endoperez said:
Would these values be counted before or after adjusting the equipment? As an example, Ulmish Lord Guardian will get prot 20 but -8 or so def with his equipment.

AFAIK, equipment only has a resource cost, not a gold cost, and so equipment is ignored when calculating this (all base stats).

Since commanders can have magic items anyway, this is probably the 'best' way of going about it.

[Scott Hebert]

Agrajag said:

Just as a simple example, take this none-existing unit:
HP 1
Attack 30
Defence 1
Strength 30
Protection 1
AP 30

All right. Using my current formula:

HP 1 -9 (remember, base of 10)
Att 30 20 (same as above)
Def 1 -9
Str 30 20
Prot 1 1 (assuming base prot)
AP (I don't have much to figure in for this yet... this will probably be taken care of by the 'mounted' tag and a few other things.)

So that comes to 23 points.

and this unit:
HP 16
Attack 16
Defence 16
Strength 16
AP 16

HP 16 6
Att 16 6
Def 16 6
Str 16 6

This comes to 24 points. Yes, that seems to be about the same. I think the fault lies in the negatives (that is, values below 10), as they have a greater impact than positives. Still, I could try to come up with a progressive system that takes this into account. Unfortunately, I think it would have a lot more 'end math' needed to get it to the point where it could be applied to something like gold cost.

According to the additive system, both are exactly the same, while it is obvious that the second is a much better unit.
as another example you can take the first unit and up its HP, Defence and Protection to 30, according to the additive system that unit is now almost twice as strong as before,

Well, you didn't list the protection of the second unit at all. If you're referring to base protection, increase the second unit's cost by 16 (making it 40 to 23). Now, if you have a hypothetical unit of 'all 30s', you'd have:

HP 30 20
Att 30 20
Def 30 20
Prot 30 30

I get 90 for this. As compared to 40. A little higher than twice. Now, if you assume a base of 0 prot (i.e., their protection comes from armor), you have 60 to 24. That is a 2.5x difference.

Is it foolproof? Probably not. However, I think my method will be a good 'rule of thumb'. At the present, I also only plan to use this with commanders, not troops. That makes an additive system IMO a slightly better idea. (Commanders get slots to use magic items. This tends to 'even out' things, especially for combat builds.)