SC's vs Thugs

[Oversway]

It is a subjective measure.

One way to look at this is once your attack, prot, and defense start get into the mid to high twenties, you've got an sc. In the low twenties maybe its more of a thug. Also, SCs usually have some decent magic to buff with, thugs not as often.

[Vicious Love]

I like to draw the line thusly:
A thug is simply effective against regular troops, to the point at which it is most efficiently dealt with via unconventional spells/tactics.
An SC, in contrast, is completely immune to regular troops. Barring the 50/100 turn limit, outrageous statistical improbability, or hostile magical intervention, an SC will never, ever, under any circumstances succumb to an army of nationals(excepting sacreds) and/or most low-end summons, no matter that army's size. Ye Olde Selfe Buffing Ghost King and Air Queen are good examples of such a SCs: sending a regular army against them, even one worth thousands of gold, is utterly futile.

[Tom_Scudder]

Where would Bogus the Troll fall on the scale?

[Endoperez]

I don't know about Bogus, but the Dark Knight falls on "cheesy". He knows his tactics: he only attacks commanders! I'm not sure if its magic-users or commanders in general, but its rather extraordinary, either way.

[shovah]

Tom_Scudder said:
Where would Bogus the Troll fall on the scale?

id put bogus down as a thug, but he could become a high lvl thug/very low lvl sc if given some great items but not worth it imo. bogus is actually quite a good example of a thug now that i think of it

[Oversway]

The Greenstone armor that bogus wears isn't that great - high enc for its prot. But his other equipment is decent.

Troll Kings can be really nice, with the right equipment. You get high str and regen built in. Can cast summon earthpower and invulerability. Sea Kings are good too -- quickness and breath of winter. Although I frequently have Sea Kings casting falling frost instead...

I'm not sure if I'd say the troll kings are high end thugs or low end scs. They can't compete with air queens, but they can destroy most regular troop armies.

[shovah]

i would put troll kings as high end thugs unless they are equiped. give them a lucky pendant and an amulet of anti magic/amulet of resilence/amulet of missle protection. then give flying shoes/boots of quckness

[RonD]

Troll kings are great anti-SC artillery (petrify).

[Boron]

Vicious Love said:
I like to draw the line thusly:
A thug is simply effective against regular troops, to the point at which it is most efficiently dealt with via unconventional spells/tactics.
An SC, in contrast, is completely immune to regular troops. Barring the 50/100 turn limit, outrageous statistical improbability, or hostile magical intervention, an SC will never, ever, under any circumstances succumb to an army of nationals(excepting sacreds) and/or most low-end summons, no matter that army's size. Ye Olde Selfe Buffing Ghost King and Air Queen are good examples of such a SCs: sending a regular army against them, even one worth thousands of gold, is utterly futile.

There are some exeptions. Illithids can luck e.g. with their paralyze mind blow, Jotuns can also be lucky and kill a SC.
Then there are some troops with alternative attacks, like web+poison from the machaka spiders.
Ulm arlabests can also luck, pythium hydras maybe too.

Even 100 black knights might get some lucky lance hits and kill the enemy SC. And don't forget Ulms capitol only guardians, they have magical weapons, good strength and good weapon damage.

So i would say a SC can take down normally any reasonable army. But 100 black knights or the like are theoretically possible too though in praxis probably no player will build them (maybe in faerun).

[Endoperez]

Well, Vicious Love said that worked, except for "outrageous statistical improbability"... Which could include the lucky hits Black Knights might be able to cause. I don't think he meant it that way, though. Something truly outrageous would be a Black Hawk hitting 100+ points of damage to a Cyclops, taking out his both arms.

I think BK etc powerful troops should be put to the same category as blessed units. They aren't as good, in most cases, but that's the closest thing.