Oblivion

[OG_Gleep]

Dunno I still think he/she is saying that if its an option then it should be used. And good games don't have those options.

Power Gamers will always find the quickest way to level. Have you ever played an MMO? Every single one had gaping flaws that allowed people to get a huge unfair advantages. Well every single one I've played.

Unlimited Pretender design points means a VQ with 9e9a9w9f9s9n9d9b, and can only be gotten through a trainer as far as I know. The word trainer goes right along with Cheating in my book. Just because you don't use a 3rd party app doesn't mean its not exploiting or cheating. Abuse, exploits, and actual h4xs are all the same. And he/she clearly said what was written was an Abuse of the skill system.

So, if you abuse the system, and then complain about it...its kind of silly. Theres very few games out..good, bad, ok, that don't have some form of exploit someone has found.

And ok.. I may concede that taping "jump" button, may not be an abuse per se..but thats just power gaming in a Skill based system. Every skill based system you can do that. Its just the nature of the beast.

[Endoperez]

OG_Gleep wrote:

Dunno I still think he/she is saying that if its an option then it should be used. And good games don't have those options.

So, if you abuse the system, and then complain about it...its kind of silly. Theres very few games out..good, bad, ok, that don't have some form of exploit someone has found.

I thought that she was only saying that she shouldn't have to limit herself when playing for fun. That's like saying that she shouldn't have to have to play Mictlan without ever summoning demons to have a challenge against the AI. It's like playing C'tis with Cold 3 scale and making sure that you only use your own national units. If you know how to play better, you shouldn't have to shoot your own foot.

And ok.. I may concede that taping "jump" button, may not be an abuse per se..but thats just power gaming in a Skill based system. Every skill based system you can do that. Its just the nature of the beast.

What she listed under spoiler there is something that is clearly unintuitive, stupid, wrong. The game shouldn't work that way. Playing that way shouldn't be the optimal choice. Skill-based system is supposed to encourage certain playstyle, and using your primary skills is part of it.
If "the nature of the beast" is acceptable, is giving Fever Fetishes to undead just part of the game, and acceptable? Not suffering from disease, cold or poison is one of the undeads' primary abilities. The life-draining dagger was meant to be a blood booster for different slot, not a weapon of choice for any creature that wants to have a shield - but as a path that can summon some of the most powerful SC chassises, it makes Blood's primary power of summoning even more powerful.
Sphinx was very powerful pretender in Dom:PPP. It could Teleport into any province very early in the game, and if you got it to an enemy capital on, say, turn 10, he was just screwed. There's not much you can do about it. Sphinx was made truly immobile for DomII, and Teleport was changed. While this might not be the perfect possibility, at least Illwinter did something. Dom:PPP was a good game. DomII is clearly better. Morrowind is a good game, and Oblivion looks better, but why shouldn't the other problems be corrected as well?

[PrinzMegaherz]

Endoperez said:
What she listed under spoiler there is something that is clearly unintuitive, stupid, wrong. The game shouldn't work that way. Playing that way shouldn't be the optimal choice. Skill-based system is supposed to encourage certain playstyle, and using your primary skills is part of it.

If I'm not completely mistaken, you only level up by increasing your primary skills to a certain amount. Her strategy does not involve leveling those skills, so she would forever remain on level one. And I doubt that you could master the arena with a level one character, as your abilities like Hitpoints etc. would be far too low to survive some of the more fierce battles.

[Alneyan]

PrinzMegaherz said:
If I'm not completely mistaken, you only level up by increasing your primary skills to a certain amount. Her strategy does not involve leveling those skills, so she would forever remain on level one. And I doubt that you could master the arena with a level one character, as your abilities like Hitpoints etc. would be far too low to survive some of the more fierce battles.

That's basically her purpose, actually. In Daggerfall and Morrowind, you do *not* want to level up, especially if you happen to be a mage. Compared to other games, your health is relatively high on level 1, and does not rise much with other levels; Mana does not increase at all, and you could aim for the 85 Intelligence on level 1 with ease in Daggerfall (Morrowind is a bit more reasonable here, I think). So, your fire power is comparatively greater than elsewhere, and your access to magic is virtually unlimited.

I have played a character with all skills starting at 5 in Morrowind, and frankly can't say I've noticed much of a difference. Though I had all my important skills in primary/major (and so levelled rather quickly), I was not seriously challenged past the first few levels - that is, once my Destruction skill reached an acceptable level (20% odds of casting isn't great). Note that it was playing the GOTY edition; in earlier incarnations of the game, Magicka was pretty limited (or so I've been told). In Daggerfall, I know I took down the odd Daedra Lord or three at level 2, while deliberately trying not to level up (bloody Language skills made me go up to level 2). Magic *is* powerful (continuous effects anyone?).

I also dislike very much the mindless levelling of some "non-combat" skills that the system implies. Raising, say, Speechcraft takes a *while* if you use the skill in a rational manner. There is only two ways of getting the skill to a reasonably high level without spending ten months on the same character: training, or the clicking madness. Speechcraft could be raised relatively quickly by bribing the same character left and right (until his disposition dropped to 0), even though there was no point in doing so. Training is the other panacea, wherein gold buys power, which buys more gold, and so on. Training has been revamped in Morrowind, though it may be even more useful than before, as you can now get trained above 50.

Note that I speak about Daggerfall and Morrowind only, as I haven't played Oblivion (but there does not seem to be any significant difference). I find the skill-based system to be more interesting than the classes found elsewhere; problem is, the particular implementation of the skills seem to be flawed in those games. It seems to reward the number of successful uses, no matter how trivial (spells without any "real" effect anyone?), and does not consider how important these successes really were. Quantity over quality... hey, doesn't that sound like the levelling scheme of your average MMORPG? (Ultima Online comes to mind here)

[shovah]

oblivion needs windows xp right?

[archaeolept]

or 2k

here's a review w/ system requirements

[shovah]

thank the lord. im getting it delivered today (after some delays) and i was worried that it was xp only (like BFME 2 which i am also getting today) since this comp is only 2k

[PrinzMegaherz]

Alneyan said:

That's basically her purpose, actually. In Daggerfall and Morrowind, you do *not* want to level up, especially if you happen to be a mage. Compared to other games, your health is relatively high on level 1, and does not rise much with other levels; Mana does not increase at all, and you could aim for the 85 Intelligence on level 1 with ease in Daggerfall (Morrowind is a bit more reasonable here, I think). So, your fire power is comparatively greater than elsewhere, and your access to magic is virtually unlimited.

I have played a character with all skills starting at 5 in Morrowind, and frankly can't say I've noticed much of a difference. Though I had all my important skills in primary/major (and so levelled rather quickly), I was not seriously challenged past the first few levels - that is, once my Destruction skill reached an acceptable level (20% odds of casting isn't great). Note that it was playing the GOTY edition; in earlier incarnations of the game, Magicka was pretty limited (or so I've been told). In Daggerfall, I know I took down the odd Daedra Lord or three at level 2, while deliberately trying not to level up (bloody Language skills made me go up to level 2). Magic *is* powerful (continuous effects anyone?).

I also dislike very much the mindless levelling of some "non-combat" skills that the system implies. Raising, say, Speechcraft takes a *while* if you use the skill in a rational manner. There is only two ways of getting the skill to a reasonably high level without spending ten months on the same character: training, or the clicking madness. Speechcraft could be raised relatively quickly by bribing the same character left and right (until his disposition dropped to 0), even though there was no point in doing so. Training is the other panacea, wherein gold buys power, which buys more gold, and so on. Training has been revamped in Morrowind, though it may be even more useful than before, as you can now get trained above 50.

Note that I speak about Daggerfall and Morrowind only, as I haven't played Oblivion (but there does not seem to be any significant difference). I find the skill-based system to be more interesting than the classes found elsewhere; problem is, the particular implementation of the skills seem to be flawed in those games. It seems to reward the number of successful uses, no matter how trivial (spells without any "real" effect anyone?), and does not consider how important these successes really were. Quantity over quality... hey, doesn't that sound like the levelling scheme of your average MMORPG? (Ultima Online comes to mind here)

I agree with the last part. I'm playing a thief/assassin, and find it hard to increase my skills. As a Warrior, I would need 3 slashes of my sword to kill my enemy. As an assassin, it only takes one stab from behind. Though the results are the same, the warrior will increase his skills three times as fast.

[Vicious Love]

PrinzMegaherz said:

I agree with the last part. I'm playing a thief/assassin, and find it hard to increase my skills. As a Warrior, I would need 3 slashes of my sword to kill my enemy. As an assassin, it only takes one stab from behind. Though the results are the same, the warrior will increase his skills three times as fast.

Wait, so that same system is still in effect? Ugh. I mean, ugh. First rule of playing a Morrowind mage: Never cast one worthwhile spell when three dozen pathetically weak ones will suffice. Ideally of the sort that can be cast while running across the countryside, targeting nothing in particular.

[shovah]

yea, the leveling system loves warriors and hates anyone who sneaks