What's wrong with this battle?

[OG_Gleep]

There are lots of ways to kill an ice devil. Ice Devils are classified as SC's, and there is a very recent thread on magic vs SC's. 20 resistance doesn't make them immune to spells.

What weapon is the athame. I don't recognize it and I couldn't find it in the magic item list.

The Naj has the ability to conifg a lot of different ways weapon wise. If the Athamme doesn't give fire protection, the dragon scale armor won't give 100% resistance to fire, so you could use any of the multiple fire weapons.

Vine Shield/Eye shield could also work.

And as Oversway mentioned there are a few +demon weapons that you could use. The flambeau does fire dmg + 3x dmg to demons. You could use 2 of them, 1 + weapon + shield or 1 + 2 weapons.

Also, why not use more of the buffs you have available?

A3 has Mistform and Mirror Image
S3 gives you access to Astral shield and Body Etheral
W2 gives you access to cold resistance

And if I'm not mistaken Naj are cold blooded...you could be going in with a stacked deck if the province your fighting in is cold. Not only does it effect you, but it buffs ice devils.

Anyhow, Ice devils are great, but theres a ton of ways to beat them.

[Endoperez]

Blood Athame, IIRC - Blood booster, and a life-draining dagger. The life-drain is good enough even in such a small form.

Natarajas aren't cold-blooded, but they are affected by cold dominion more than other pretenders because they make more attacks. The normal slight increase for extreme cold affects every attack IIRC.

[Saber Cherry]

Attack is decreased by high fatigue. So after casting all those spells, with no reinvigoration, what was the Nat's fatigue? Also, if it fell asleep, the Ice Devils would hit it 100% of the time, and (IIRC) ignore the armor.

[magnate]

Saber Cherry said:
Attack is decreased by high fatigue. So after casting all those spells, with no reinvigoration, what was the Nat's fatigue? Also, if it fell asleep, the Ice Devils would hit it 100% of the time, and (IIRC) ignore the armor.

It didn't fall asleep. The Nat had fatigue in the 50s after buffs, with +3 per round from encumbrance. The returning kicked in when her fatigue was about 65, so she hadn't fallen asleep at all.

I knew fatigue lowered DEF, but I didn't know it lowered ATT as well - is it the same mechanic? -1 per 10 fatigue or something?

In every MP game I've played the player with the IDs has won. Usually it's me, but this time I decided to stay away from blood entirely and see if I could defeat them. The combination of AW not working on IDs and ATT reducing after fatigue from buffs makes an SC pretty unlikely to work. Which is ridiculous, since the IDs are nowhere near the most expensive summons, so why should they be the best SCs?

I'll try using spells - most of the best anti-SC spells seem to need E3 or more, and Tien Chi lacks earth mages (only the Celestial Master with a random pick in earth). Frozen Heart would ironically be the ideal spell vs Arch Devils, but not Ice Devils. Ho hum.

CC

[Oversway]

I've read that Frozen Heart does NOT check cold resistance, but I havn't tried it myself.

On the other hand, I've never heard of astral weapon not working. Especially with one class of monsters. I'm not that suprised it doesn't work with trample, however.

I'd still have a go at the ID with your nat again. If you were going for the high def ID with luck, missing all those times could be possible.

If still no luck, you could try a couple other weapons to test the theory. The armor negating dagger (I think its 1s1d) might help. A higher attack weapon - fire sword or better yet firebrand might also help you hit.

[DominionsFan]

I think that SCs including Ice Devils are a bit overpowered in Doms 2, afaik SCs will be "nerfed" in Doms3.

[NTJedi]

I knew items which had life stealing were being nerfed, but I didn't know the SC's themselves were also being nerfed.

[Graeme Dice]

magnate said:I knew fatigue lowered DEF, but I didn't know it lowered ATT as well - is it the same mechanic? -1 per 10 fatigue or something?

It's -1 per 20 fatigue, so your Nataraja had an attack of less than 20 versus a defense of more than 25. That kind of attack/defense disadvantage is extremely hard to hit through. I wouldn't have expected very many hits given only two rounds of combat.

The combination of AW not working on IDs and ATT reducing after fatigue from buffs makes an SC pretty unlikely to work.

This is how faulty information and rumours get started. Nobody has said anything that even suggests that there's evidence that astral weapon doesn't effect Ice Devils, and you're already posting it like it's a fact.

Which is ridiculous, since the IDs are nowhere near the most expensive summons, so why should they be the best SCs?

They aren't. Arch devils are certainly better given that they can cast phoenix pyre.

[Saber Cherry]

They aren't. Arch devils are certainly better given that they can cast phoenix pyre.

I think they're better, though it depends on the map and nation. Self-casting Quickness, the ability to go underwater, higher base protection, bonus protection in cold provinces, and no weakness to fire (versus 50% weakness to cold, for Arch Devils) make them extremely potent. Not so great for Abysia, though. Also, some people might prefer Fire Shield, but Breath of Winter can be used similarly, against non-undeads.

Neither of them are really as good as Tartarians, though, at 10D+20N each; the differences in HP, encumbrance, size (for trample), and magic skills are pretty major. Immortals such as Wraith Lords and Vampire Lords, and non-standard choices like Vastnessess can all be more effective in many situations, too.

[shovah]

a bunch of un-equiped vampire lords ar e amazing at harrasing the enemy as he trie to reinforce his main invasion (aslong as you stay in friendly dominions)