Repulsion strategies

[Agrajag]

In theory, D9 would also be a useful counter to SCs, Afflictions can bring down the best of them, and the AN damage makes obscene protection SCs pretty useless. And of course magical attacks overcome "regular" etherality. Which still leaves high defense. For which F9 is superior because IIRC flaming weapons are still considered magical, and the extra attack can come in handy.

As for counters, my best bet would be anything with AOE, to make sure they can't escape it, that they die in large numbers (supposedly they should come in small numbers because they are usually harder to mass then regular units), and because its fun
Anything Evocation is usually good, I like the falling clouds of fire and of ice, thunderstrikes can work nicely, and if you can get Astral Fires against the right guys, its a lot of fun (I actually haven't been able to cast Astral Fires by any substantial amount in unmodded Dom3, only with the Sar Elad mod. Then again I haven't really tried)

[PvK]

One thing that can stop blessed troops are tough troops with a strong aura, such as Niefel Giants. I have seen a sufficiently dense wall of those freeze Vanheim troops before they can do much damage to the giants.

[Quietly]

Your counter to neifelheim is inadequate due to the aura, as stated above...

I wish I could show you some replays of the past few turns from the dawnstrike game I am playing as jotunheim in... as far as waves of chaff vs few giants...

4 neifelheim giants and 1 1H jarl leading them

They killed about 120 / 150 arcosphale troops, including about 16 chariots, and around 40 of their highest armour troops and a couple lightnign bolt casting mages.

With E9N10 I suffered 0 losses.

Even though he researched quickly and build lotsof his national strong air mages, he lost his capitol in spite of around 10 of them casting lightning bolts, his god also casting away, and some of his mages scripted to summon 3-4 elementals, with about 200 assorted national troops (this was vs about 20 giants)... I suffered fewer than 5 causualties, and those were mainly a few units that had escaped being blessed (my prophet got assassinated, so no sure bless)

It's great to say you are tired of hearing about it, but you can't just talk your way around it... neighbor dude had no chance... when 1 turns worth of my units can slaughter around a year's worth of production value + gold, without a loss, how can you say he has a chance early game... and if you accept super bless is going to gobble a couple nations by midgame, how much better do other nations really fair by midgame once giants or other super blesses have around 3x the income and forts (this is around the time when most nations can access the spells which you claimed would counter blessables)?

Btw, regarding map size questions: Its a large map we are playing on, bigger than 15 provinces per player... I'm not saying I win, and in fact I'll probably get stomped later mid, but as to the issue of balance in the game, one should be concerned with the fact that some (MANY) nations have practically 0 chance of victory if they happen to be closest to certain others.

[llamabeast]

I still find E9N9 Niefel Giants to be upsetting. In fact they may be the thing I like least about the game. Fighting them is just a miserable experience, and if you don't have tolerable research (for Destruction) I still don't know how you're meant to kill them.

[Ironhawk]

Would massed tangle vines work? Without quickness wouldnt they may be bogged down forever trying to break the vines each round? Though truthfully I can't think of anything that gets around the hold x5 tactic pointed out above. Unless you knew you were gonna face it going in and told all your mages to hold x5 which is a dodgy proposition at best.

[ano]

Fighting them is just a miserable experience, and if you don't have tolerable research (for Destruction) I still don't know how you're meant to kill them.

Why wait for destruction when Armor of Achilles is lower in research and cost and affects the whole square. Yes, it's range is limited but if you have enough mages you may script them properly (and may be set them to retreat after two or three casts). Without armor, Niefel Giants should be killed easily with anything that's immune to cold or strikes fast and painful.

[chrispedersen]

llama, read the other thread on niefle - but there are a lot of reasonable possible counters to niefle. Bow of botox (especially before a bless) is one of my favorites.

Rain of toads, blight is another. And yeah, I love tanglevince and vine arrows as well Iron.

[Humakty]

I don't think the vast superiority of ubber blesses can be contested at the very beginning of a game. There are maybe some unadequate counters that early on, but what truly balances the blesses is that, ultimately, the ubber blessers are most of the time stuck with lame magic on their gods, as W9 F9 won't do much for you late game, and your so sweet sacreds won't be much more than chaff.

So it's all a question of opportunity costs, as you most of the time won't be able to have your cake and eat it. The real question being : Will I have time to take an overwhelming advantage with my sacreds/ to build up my late game combo ?

PS :all of this chatter is uttered by a Solo Player, those guys are arrogant worms...

[JimMorrison]

W9/F9 Jags or Eagles are never obsolete (plus Mictlan has excellent Sacred summons). E9/N9 Niefel Giants, the same. You develop more useful counters, and they develop greater numbers, and better support - it's always an arms race, and a heavy bless nation starts the game with an AK-47, while you come out with a pistol.

[Endoperez]

While the Assartut discussion in here is outdated, they are a very interesting unit. Their weapons lower strength permanently. Wyrm with 3 strength is a pitiful sight...