MA Ermor advice please

[Jazzepi]

Aezeal said:
Serenity sure I will play (I just started a game) them but as I said I want to win my first MP game and I have set my mind on playing with this nation I know nothing about so far.. so since I have no time (at least I hope the game starts this week) for 3-4 SP games to see wether sloth 3 is REALLY a problem etc. (I'll admit that even in my SP game I'd like a decent start cus why learn the basics of a nation in 3-4 games when with a lil asking you can learn a lot in 1-2 (I'm posting and reading here while waiting on the turns.. not like I have something better to do.. I like to see it as MAXIMIZING my learning curve in minimum time )

I mean if I need to play 3-4 games with ALL RACES just to learn the basics of them then i'd take way more time than I have.. I've got a pretty busy just, and it's taking way more hours than most people spend on their job (here in the netherlands at least) so I just have to take short cuts and I'm not ashamed of it either. And strat talk in general will improve my game with all nations and I like it.

Jazepi.. that would indeed give me 200 point to spend which could nicely go to growth 3 for a better base late game and .. soemthing else. But the gem/magic item/heroes are always such nice surprises... makes the list worth reading

I still would like more opinions on drain/magic most games I just take drain 2 for just -1 RP and build more mages (which I can afford easily with the + scales I take for those)
what are your thoughts? any other things that you guys think I should take into consideration with magic vs drain in general and for MA Ermor specifically?

I used to do this a lot. What I discovered is that it really depends on your mages. If you have 7-8 research point mages, then you can probably afford to take the -1 research hit and go drain 2 with the intent of spamming forts + mages to catch up with other people who have +1 magic.

If you don't, and a good example would be a nation like EA Abysia, or MA Man, you're locked into having at least magic 1. If you take drain 2, for instance, with EA abysia, your prime researcher only produces 3 points of research per turn. I shouldn't have to explain how abysmal that is.

What's really happening is that the lower research your guys are, the more an improvement percentage wise an increase in the magic scales are. The higher researcher your mages are, the less relative benefit you're getting out of it.

Jazzepi

Jazzepi

[DrPraetorious]

Assuming you can get the death income, it's often a good idea to go for skull mentors as MA Ermor.

I'll expand on the advice that Meglobob and Aezeal have been giving. This is my most successful MP build for MA Ermor:
9S9W Imprisoned Oracle
3 Order
3 Sloth
2 Misfortune
1 Magic
Domstr 8

I think that balances out (I'm at work waiting for a colleague who IS LATE); if you've got points left over take a Growth.

An early expansion army should consist of an archtheurg and 16 shadow vestals. Put ten or so of the javelin legionaires *in front* of the vestals and set them to fire, which will prevent the occasional vestal casualty that you'd otherwise suffer from archery (legionaires are basically arrow-proof). That'll keep you going for a while.
EDIT: The shadow vestals should be set to attack. This set-up is resistant to archery but doesn't have much archery of its own to fall back on.

Against another player, put legionaires of some kind (we can argue endlessly about which kind is best, but the pros and cons generally balance out) in the front rank, shadow vestals behind them (set to attack rear) and undead in the rear behind your mages to soak enemies set to attack rear and to mop up in case the rest of your army flees for whatever reason.

Put the mages in the middle of the army and slightly off to the side - *never* leave them in the actual middle where they default because sometimes the computer mysteriously chooses to shoot at that spot. Spread them out in a line. Give them bodyguards that can't be targeted easily.

With Const 4, Evoc 5 and Thaum 2, you have battlemages that will punish enemy players well into the late mid game. Put ~three archtheurgs with skull staff (optional), eye, spell focus and *some kind of armor* and ~eight theurgs. The theurgs all form a communion and the archtheurgs cast shadow blast through it. This will often kill an entire enemy army, even of crazy stuff like angels. The armor, by the way, is an absolute must to protect your investment in these guys. Even a shroud of the battle saint makes them essentially immune to stray arrows, and much more resistant to assassins.

[Aezeal]

a question do you let the enemy come to you with that setup (javelineers in front of vestals) or doyou just start em like that and then let the vestals attack?

[Aezeal]

preatorius why not use cold or heat.. seems to me that would be better than misfortune or sloth cus you really don't need that much supplies right?

[Shovah32]

I charge at the enemy with that set-up. The legionaires are just to absorb arrows/knight charges for the first 2 rounds of battle really.

Why not use cold or heat? Because each also causes a 5% income loss(although I took DrP's scales+some cold so I could buy growth).

edit: You can just edit your post to add small notes like that thing about drain .
Yes, drain 2 would give +1 MR but your vestals already have enough and you can boost your low MR undead with spells. That boost also works for both sides of the battlefield, and with your magic being MR negates(nether spells, shadow blast and such) you want the enemy with as low MR as possible.

[DrPraetorious]

Actually, I think this might be a better build (Archaeo suggested it on IRC):

Dormant Oracle, 4F4W9S, Domstr 9
3 Order
3 Sloth
3 Growth
1 Misfortune
2 Drain

The loss of quickness on the shadow vestals hurts considerably, but the extra money (and theurg life expectancy) is muy nice, and +2 attack is nothing to sneeze at. You don't go through indies *quite* as viciously but it's still not at all bad.

[Aezeal]

well I already submitted
W9S9
dom 8
order 3
sloth 3
0growth
1 cold
1 misfortune
1 magic
imp oracle

[Shovah32]

DrPraetorious said:
Actually, I think this might be a better build (Archaeo suggested it on IRC):

Dormant Oracle, 4F4W9S, Domstr 9
3 Order
3 Sloth
3 Growth
1 Misfortune
2 Drain

The loss of quickness on the shadow vestals hurts considerably, but the extra money (and theurg life expectancy) is muy nice, and +2 attack is nothing to sneeze at. You don't go through indies *quite* as viciously but it's still not at all bad.

That only has 1 better net scale and 1 higher dominion than the dual bless build. For example, you could take 1 more misfortune and 1 less dominion and get a dual bless again.

[Aezeal]

the drain 2 would also ive higher MR against banishment right?

[IndyPendant]

I'm going to be starting an MP game soon, playing MA Ermor, and I'm playing around with Pretender builds. I'm resurrecting a slightly aged thread here to ask a question:

Is +1 defense, +50% movement, and +50% attacks to your vestals really worth 7 Dominion Scales?

Azeal and DrP both present Imprisoned Oracle pretenders with W9S9. When I was examining this build, I noticed that to go from W4 to W9 costs 280 points, for which all you get is +1 defense and the water bless on your sacreds. Or for that 280 points you could go from Sloth-3 and Growth 0, to Prod-3 and Growth-1 (or Growth 3/Prod 0/Luck -1, and so on). Going from Water-4 to Water-9 on your Pretender nets you almost *nothing* in greater magical power, so it's not even factored as a consideration here. (You could also, for those 280 points, take any two of Fire-4, Blood-4, and Earth-4, for +2 attack, strength, and/or reinvigoration respectively--and then still have room for N2 as well, which all allows for greater crafting/summoning diversity...)

I'm having problems picking the final stats on my pretender. So convince me you're right! ; ) What would you recommend? Do you think it's better to enhance the vestals, improve the scales, or take multiple magic paths? Or even to use an entirely different pretender build? And why?

Thanks,

IndyPendant.