Stats for a war wagon - suggestion needed

[Tichy]

First kills could off the horsies, making it an immobile archer platform? Subsequent kills would be picking off the archers.

First kill higher hp lower defense/prot; subsequent low hp, higher prot, low def?

[Frostmourne27]

Just a note: if you give them low protection and high defense they will be super vulnerable to archers, unless they have a ton of hp. Def is not relevant to shooting. You could give them shield based armour though, which makes them unit harder to hit, but doesn't work vs. really strong hits, AN weapons and has 50% effect vs. AP.

[Shovah32]

Or they could have a high defence and a weak shield called 'wagon cover' or some-such that has low protection but very high parry value.

[Sombre]

I worked out how I'd get the Empire war wagon working for the Warhammer: Empire nation.

Form 1 - Two horses, some missile prot from a shield much like the one Shovah describes. It has 3 missile weapons, one long range mutliple shot one, one medium range and one close range. Each of these only has 1 ammo. It has trample. This means if it isn't hit it will fire off the long range, move closer and fire off medium, then close range, then finally it will trample.

But if hit hard enough, it switches to..

Form 2: One horse. As form 1, but slower and lacks long and medium range weapons, forcing it to still try and close in to use the 1 shot from the short range. If this is damaged it goes to..

Form 3: No more trample. No more moving. Better cover effect, higher natural prot, ok hp and several melee attacks from the crew. It also regains the medium range missile weapon with 3 ammo, so it can fire at stuff as it flees, or still be useful if both horses got blasted half way to the enemy.

So basically it advances while firing, then tramples, if it takes too much damage it stays put and either fires away or kills stuff up close in melee.

After battle it always returns to form 1.

Pretty tough unit.

It's a bit different from the hussite style defensive war wagon you're after, but maybe it will give you some ideas.

[jutetrea]

Sounds like a sweet unit, have it been implemented or still in design?

[Sombre]

Still in design. I have all the code in my head and it's totally doable, would take a few minutes to type out. But the graphics will take a while.

[Chacal]

Frostmourne27 said:
Just a note: if you give them low protection and high defense they will be super vulnerable to archers, unless they have a ton of hp. Def is not relevant to shooting. You could give them shield based armour though, which makes them unit harder to hit, but doesn't work vs. really strong hits, AN weapons and has 50% effect vs. AP.

Shovah32 said:
Or they could have a high defence and a weak shield called 'wagon cover' or some-such that has low protection but very high parry value.

You are right, I'm using for now for test purposes a shield with parry value of 7 and it's good enough to not get killed with evry arrow. The results are that with poor armor (those of soldiers in fact, something like 8 for now) but high defense (from natural and shield) and the good parry value, the wagon needs to be ganged up by some soldiers to be defeated and resist pretty well to 'light arrow density'. It resist pretty well too against a knight charge, thing wich was the first purpose for me. I'll test it against a high density arrow rain to see if i should choose a higher parry value.

I'll try to make him enough good to not loose more than one crew against 5 standard infantry but to die swiftly if more of them come.

[Chacal]

Sombre,

You have a very intersting idea with that Warhammer wagon, and have found how to fire and move ! For my part i'll probably do two wagons, one clearly defensive with crossbows and a melee attack, and one offensive version with mostly melee weapons and maybe a short range ranged attack with low munitions just like javelins.

I will probably use idea you and Tichy suggest of disabling horses, will do some test.

Mine is for now returning to it's basic form only from form 2 (it has 4) and is eliminated at the end of battle in form 4 ( I consider it's too much damaged, crew is dispersed etc...)

In attachement you may see a very basic version of my full crew wagon, still needs improvements and original horses but it's better than using elephants for tests

[Aezeal]

personally I'm not so much for new races, I usually play games with the races as is.. but a special province which anyone could find that would not change balance (I have this strange idea the game as is is balanced, I know it's not but it's the balance the makers gave it so it how it was meant to be , silly me

anyway a "tech" province with warwagons (I'd totally see this a a gnome laboratory (D&D gnomes) creating one strange thing after another (warwagons (in different sizes) and other strange stuff, guns maybe.. yea I'd like that much better than a separate race)

OW and use em as mercs... same reason equal acces to all = always balanced

[Cor2]

Are you still thinking about killing the horses?
I just ask because it does not seem to fit with dom3 standards. We have lots of mounted units and chariots and of the few that do have 2 forms its always the mount that lives not the rider, regardless of respective armour ratings.