The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Thread!

[TheMenacer]

I doubt the Nataraja or Destroyer of Worlds should be summonable because they're based off of specific hindu gods (forget which ones though, I think the one with the severed head and all the anti demon weapons is based on Kali, although nobody should quote me on that) and the various "Lord/Son of ..." titans probably wouldn't make for good summons unless a given player were to rationalize summoning other gods to help him out as building up a pantheon (there's a thought, instead of just pretender god vs. pretender god, it's pretender pantheon vs. pretender pantheon). The other assorted monstrous pretender types would definitely make for solid endgame summons though. I'd still like to see a lot of nation specific summons as well as more general one though, although that's me.

Just a thought, despite the fact that it changes nothing about how awesome blood magic is for the endgame, I'd like to see LA Marignon get some national blood summons for more specifically Christian demons. I mean, it gets all those sweet angelic summons for the middle era, so it's firmly a Christian-inspired nation, and yet it's got nothing specifically Christian for its horrifyingly corrupt late era except for the angels which still hang around for some reason despite the whole nation being based entirely on how much it loves to sacrifice virgins and torture people. I suppose the vast majority of blood summons are already pretty well based on Christian mythology, but there have to be at least a few demons, specific individuals or otherwise, just waiting to be turned into summonable minions.

Also yet more ideas, Machacka is supposed to have a dead god sleeping in their mountain, right? Well I think by the time endgame magics start getting tossed around, it's high time they woke his *** up. Also, just so they can have more than one endgame monster running around, how about size 6 divine spiders with an awe or fear aura that just bust all kinds of heads in.

And for Pangaea, I think carrion summons are awesome, and also things like the carrion dragon are cool as hell, so why not push the carrion-related envelope. Having a really high level summon that just calls up a carrion tartarian would be wacky as hell and pretty much the best thing. Failing that, any unit's carrion equivalent would be fun to play around with.

[Ironhawk]

I'm seeing a lot of monster-type summons in the list you all are putting out. While I definitely like my monsters, you have to keep in mind that monster-type commanders are not nearly as useful as titan-type commanders in the late game due to the difference in slots. If you are trying to balance out the endgame SCs, you might want to concentrate on units that have all (or most) slots.

[Micah]

Monsters can be great, they just have to be cheap, mobile, and commanders so they can serve as raiders. They won't hold up against a titan, but if you can get 4 dragons for 1 geared out titan that seems pretty reasonable.

[Hoplosternum]

It should be fairly straight forward to do a mod with a couple of late end (Summon 8 or 9) Titan & Dragon type chassis for Nature, Fire, Water, Air and possibly Earth.

I think the really good restricted Pretenders like the Gorgan should not be used. Leave them for wishes or their powers. I would make sure most have limited 'special' powers. Just some resistances - the Air ones being shock resistant perhaps. Rather than stack them up with fear and awe etc.

They just need a small number of magic paths with the Titan types either costing more (or being at 9 and the Dragon types at 8?) or require very high caster levels. They don't need to be as cheap as tartarians or compete with the Angels.

[PyroStock]

If a size 6 Tartarian Monstrum can wear a helm than many other monster-types can be given head slot(s). Monster-types can also be given up to 4 misc slots, magical paths and good base equipment/stats/abilities at an attractive price. There are plenty of variables to adjust so they can compete.

the game really steers away from stereotypical fantasy. I'm sure everyone has noticed that none of the Norse inspired nations have dwarves, because dwarves and elves are totally overdone from a fantasy perspective. I suspect that's also why there aren't as many dragons in the game as there could be.

EA Vanheim & MA Vanheim have "dwarven smiths".
EA Helheim has svartalfs (referred to as "sinister dwarves" in the game).

The ghost, skeleton and some others are very stereotypical. Dominions3 simply includes atypical fantasy from mythology as well. Since Dominions3 takes ideas from mythology worldwide it's not surprising the developers didn't get everything in, like elves (unless you consider svartálfs to be svartálfars ).

[MaxWilson]

Death: Grim Reaper, stealthy, autocasts Wind of Death before every battle. Has a magical scythe with okay stats + cause decay.

And... that's all I've got today, besides reminding you of the oft-mentioned Hecatonchires. Honestly it's hard to come up with new summons that aren't pretenders because KO knows so much more mythology than I do. I'd suggest Lovecraft but to be honest I'm not even totally sure what Shoggoths are.

-Max

[Taqwus]

Shoggoths are already in the game -- think Othernesses.

Not sure that I'd agree that every path requires a super-summon. The problem is to balance nations, not to balance paths; if one nation has a very strong early game with cheap F9W9 but cap-only sacreds, and another comes into its prime during late-game due to summons et al, and another is best suited towards lavish but expensive scales for cranking out high-quality conventional armies during a good midgame -- that seems reasonable. No need for mirror-image balance.

[llamabeast]

Not sure that I'd agree that every path requires a super-summon. The problem is to balance nations, not to balance paths; if one nation has a very strong early game with cheap F9W9 but cap-only sacreds, and another comes into its prime during late-game due to summons et al, and another is best suited towards lavish but expensive scales for cranking out high-quality conventional armies during a good midgame -- that seems reasonable. No need for mirror-image balance.

I very much agree with this, it's fundamental to the Dominions design philosophy. So each path should have a different feel and speciality.

It would, however, be nice if every path had at least some approach to the end game. Some paths just fizzle out (water and fire spring to mind), and if you hope to win a long game with a nation specialising in them you have to diversify to death or something. That's what we want to be fixing.

[Aezeal]

My sandworm from the nomads and genies mod I think it is a pretty nice end game beastie.

Beholders could do all kind of stuff, I couldn't see them as on par with tarts or seraphs I must admit but a bit less strong options wouldn't be that bad either.

wyrm based amphibious creatures wouldn't be bad either (midgard serpent like)

Son of Fenrir like beasties (or other large beasties) could be an option

ow and my favorite.. a DECENT SC phoenix summon (the pretender kinda... ehm sucks???)

Hydra mage summon would be nice too (commander and some item slots)

[sector24]

Another problem (which actually makes Dominions more charming than other games) is that the game really steers away from stereotypical fantasy. I'm sure everyone has noticed that none of the Norse inspired nations have dwarves, because dwarves and elves are totally overdone from a fantasy perspective. I suspect that's also why there aren't as many dragons in the game as there could be.

I also think "fantasy" fantasy creatures (those with no mythological basis) are not in the game simply because they are out of scope. But I guess they'd be fine for brainstorming purposes. So here we go:

Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Dragon King Zahhak (From the Iranian national epic Shahnameh)
Wendigo (someone else mentioned Sasquatch, basically the same)
Giant Spider (Shelob from LoTR, Anansi, etc.)
Basilisk/Cockatrice/Manticore/Chimera (These are somewhat covered by the Cross Breeding spell)
Sandworm (From Dune)
Grendel and Mother (although they have no physical description in the poem)
Cerberus/Garm (Giant Dog or Underworld guardian figure)
Leviathan/Behemoth/Ziz (I know they're already in the game, but these are supposed to be end of the world type creatures)

Apologies if I copied anyone!