Guide: MA Oceania - OMG, I think I've done it

[Baalz]

Well, to each his own I suppose, but the way I look at it is like this - would you rather have a transformed capricorn or a non-transformed? Low MR is certainly a significant drawback, no doubt. However, you get two huge benefits: +1 to all your magic paths and no upkeep. I've highlighted the compounding nature of the no upkeep benefit (which, if you continue to do it does generate a never ending stream of free mages from a gold point of view as long as you're pumping nature gems in), but I think those of you complaining that transformed capricorns are useless in combat are failing to appreciate how crippled they are out of the water by default.

In the left corner two 1w 2n mages, and a 2w 2n mage with good MR. In the right corner a 2w 3n 1e, 3w 3n, and 2w 3n 1a mages with low MR. In exchange for the low MR you have picked up spells from falling frost to rust mist to freezing mist (hint: did I mention you struggle with damage outlay by default?) and everybody is spamming charm, poison cloud, stream of life not to mention the forging and ritual benefits (like, say the dragon master + ice drakes I mentioned). Yes, low MR is a big penalty, but your mages are next to worthless without it anyway. When you add to that the benefits from having no upkeep your choice is really more like: those 3 high MR, low magic capricorns or 10 low MR guys with the higher paths. Low MR or no, it seems like a no-brainer to me who I'm bringing to battle (most of the time) *despite* the obvious drawbacks.

There are many situations where having a low MR is a critical weakness, but there are plenty when it's not even if your opponent knows your weakness. March against Ulm or Caelum or Man or Eriu etc. with lots of decoys (ice drakes, dark vines, etc) and that low MR is not going to be the end of the world. Plus, if you're fielding many more mages due to lack of upkeep you can certainly still come out ahead after some casualties from the low MR.

[JimMorrison]

They're just exceedingly vulnerable, in practice. You don't have 10 anything if they're all dead already.

It's not that there aren't clever ways to protect them from a weak opponent, it's just that there are so damned many clever ways to -kill- them. A human would have to be a fool, not to cause you a high rate of attrition on your "free" mages.

There is also quite a mid game period of vulnerability where you just can't possibly have all of your primary research done, yet you need to be on land already, and posturing as if you are a threat greater than the "wrath of the angry sea that will come back to haunt you".

[Jazzepi]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

They're just exceedingly vulnerable, in practice. You don't have 10 anything if they're all dead already.

It's not that there aren't clever ways to protect them from a weak opponent, it's just that there are so damned many clever ways to -kill- them. A human would have to be a fool, not to cause you a high rate of attrition on your "free" mages.

There is also quite a mid game period of vulnerability where you just can't possibly have all of your primary research done, yet you need to be on land already, and posturing as if you are a threat greater than the "wrath of the angry sea that will come back to haunt you".

Yeah, that is a huge issue. I just pushed a MA Oceania player off of my coast for three "free" provinces because he came on, and conquered the territories, but besides someday threatening me with revenge, it's just not very scary.

TBH, I think most ocean nations suffer from the "I suck on land" effect at the beginning of the game, but Oceanian has it pretty bad.

Jazzepi

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Baalz

There are many situations where having a low MR is a critical weakness, but there are plenty when it's not even if your opponent knows your weakness. March against Ulm or Caelum or Man or Eriu etc. with lots of decoys (ice drakes, dark vines, etc) and that low MR is not going to be the end of the world. Plus, if you're fielding many more mages due to lack of upkeep you can certainly still come out ahead after some casualties from the low MR.

Oreos or Raks with seduction. Sirens. Vengeance of the dead.
Tartarian chains.

Not to mention half the spells in the book are MR. I think its a great idea B. But I don't think it transforms Oceania into a powerhouse. Same strategy works better for Pangaea.

I think you're better off pursueing a death death death strat.

[Illuminated One]

Originally Posted by Baalz

Well, to each his own I suppose, but the way I look at it is like this - would you rather have a transformed capricorn or a non-transformed? Low MR is certainly a significant drawback, no doubt. However, you get two huge benefits: +1 to all your magic paths and no upkeep. I've highlighted the compounding nature of the no upkeep benefit (which, if you continue to do it does generate a never ending stream of free mages from a gold point of view as long as you're pumping nature gems in), but I think those of you complaining that transformed capricorns are useless in combat are failing to appreciate how crippled they are out of the water by default.

In the left corner two 1w 2n mages, and a 2w 2n mage with good MR. In the right corner a 2w 3n 1e, 3w 3n, and 2w 3n 1a mages with low MR. In exchange for the low MR you have picked up spells from falling frost to rust mist to freezing mist (hint: did I mention you struggle with damage outlay by default?) and everybody is spamming charm, poison cloud, stream of life not to mention the forging and ritual benefits (like, say the dragon master + ice drakes I mentioned). Yes, low MR is a big penalty, but your mages are next to worthless without it anyway. When you add to that the benefits from having no upkeep your choice is really more like: those 3 high MR, low magic capricorns or 10 low MR guys with the higher paths. Low MR or no, it seems like a no-brainer to me who I'm bringing to battle (most of the time) *despite* the obvious drawbacks.

Yeah, there are some examples were transformation makes a lot of sense (ritual casters, e and a mages) but I think you are overstating the benefit it has overall.
Would you rather have a 3w2n capricorn with a water bracelet or a 3w3n animal to cast water spells? That's just one lost path that you don't plan to use anyway and for that you are sacrificing precision, durability and mobility. What do you do when R'lyeh attacks you and 80% of your mages can't go under the water?