Guide: MA Oceania - OMG, I think I've done it

[Baalz]

.....? I thought what I just did was a very decided death slant on Oceana. You've a hard sell to convince me I missed the death angle on them. Your point is I didn't mention burden of time? It's incredibly situational depending on who your adversaries are and who you can afford to piss off, if it's likely to be dispelled, and if you've got pressing needs for your death gems. I try to keep my guides under a certain length so that people will actually read the whole thing, which means I don't go into detail of everything you can do. Yes, I agree that death scales make a whole lot of sense for Oceana, but I didn't really talk about scales at all. Cold-3 also makes a lot of sense for all underwater nations. I think a lot of what you mention is very situational.

I also did, in fact, mention that laying quickness on the centaurs complements their lance nicely. Haste does not affect first strike (it makes you use less AP to move, doesn't give you AP) and friendly currents doesn't make a significant difference.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Baalz

.....? I thought what I just did was a very decided death slant on Oceana. You've a hard sell to convince me I missed the death angle on them. Your point is I didn't mention burden of time? It's incredibly situational depending on who your adversaries are and who you can afford to piss off, if it's likely to be dispelled, and if you've got pressing needs for your death gems. I try to keep my guides under a certain length so that people will actually read the whole thing, which means I don't go into detail of everything you can do. Yes, I agree that death scales make a whole lot of sense for Oceana, but I didn't really talk about scales at all. Cold-3 also makes a lot of sense for all underwater nations. I think a lot of what you mention is very situational.

I also did, in fact, mention that laying quickness on the centaurs complements their lance nicely. Haste does not affect first strike (it makes you use less AP to move, doesn't give you AP) and friendly currents doesn't make a significant difference.

First, about the haste, I mentioned adding range *is* still useful. And friendly currents in my opinion is significant.

But, let me flesh out my points a little more. When I said Death, Death, Death, Death Death - I wasn't talking about only burden of time - but what I think a main focus should be.

So here we go with a little expansion.

First, I think you absolutely *should* be clamming. And you will be saving up these pearls for..... Armageddon. Not once, but time after time after time.

Essentially for this strategy you are going to need water, death, astral, and nature. Maelstrom is useful: Opponents don't generally wish to dispel it; it has a rapid return in water gems; and it is useful as a global dispeller (if full) or to occupy a slot.

So if you are going to armageddon........ what do you need to survive such a thing. Well first of all who cares about your population. They're already dead! And you got design points for it.

So what else do you need to do: Well, set up soup kitchens. Ie., cauldrons and wineskins. Which you are well positioned to do with your nature mages and nature income.

Thirdly, you may wish to give your research mages water items to help them survive armageddon - or maybe not. Twiceborn takes care of the problem nicely - as does summoning death mages to start with.

You may wish to consider foul air (iirc) - where each unit that gets wounded gets diseased. It dovetails into the next option to consider:

Sirens. Pretty sucky unit - but they have two very nice features.

If you are going to employ the fortress oceania approach, in the midgame, station sirens. Due to the idiosyncracy of the game engine, opponents *have* to pause next to the shore, before they can invade you. Seduce them If your sirens seduce (whatever) your opponent will never know what troops will be stuck on the shore, as their commander drowned. Adds to the cost of invasion.

Another thing to consider - if you take high death, and add battleshrouds to 4-5 mages - and then used seeking arrows (again either alone or in combination with foul air) you vastly increase the efficacy of seeking arrow.

I think the whole faeirie queen route is sub optimal as it is distracting you from what your real focus: Death. Death by undead. Death by dominion projection. Death by global, death by death summon. Death by Armageddon.

[Illuminated One]

Since I played Oceania some time ago and was utterly crushed by vfb on turn 8 or so I don't think the Ichtisaytirs are that good.
I have an sp game with a mostly similar setup but completely different indie expansion now and that worked quite well. It still has some problems, though with a high dom it works fine. If you drop only air you can get a wyrm with good dom and n5d2s3 or e3, but imo a high dom alone could be enough.

Maybe it's my inability to use them, but even groups of 10 ichtycentaurs + 2 smiters (=680 gold) are slaughtered by tougher indies and have so many losses against weaker ones that you have to reinforce them soon. And that's something that you never want to do underwater, by the time your reinforcements have reached them indie expansion is finished.

What usually happens is they build up fatigue while only killing a little. And as they do their defense drops faster than the attack of the indies and their prot, too (17 defense is really 13 defense with +4 shield parry which isn't to great against criticals).
And since you'll see very long battles that's bad.
On land they work ok, but underwater there's just so much you have to avoid (chaff, nets, Illythids).

Oceania has a quite good unit that you have overlooked I think though, the Ichtisatyrs.
They cost 8 gold 2 res, with ok stats, except low morale.
I build as much as I can on the first turn and make groups of 10 with my starting army and set them on attack rearmost, spread them in a line.
If you fight in your own dom, with sermon of courage and the tritons to boost morale they usually deal enough damage to all but the toughest indies to rout them before taking much losses themselves. Really, my first party ran out of provinces to conquer before it was useless.

[earcaraxe]

why is cold scale a good idea for underwater nations?

nice guide tho, grats! not just for the substance but for the very enjoyable style also!

Originally Posted by Baalz

.....? I thought what I just did was a very decided death slant on Oceana. You've a hard sell to convince me I missed the death angle on them. Your point is I didn't mention burden of time? It's incredibly situational depending on who your adversaries are and who you can afford to piss off, if it's likely to be dispelled, and if you've got pressing needs for your death gems. I try to keep my guides under a certain length so that people will actually read the whole thing, which means I don't go into detail of everything you can do. Yes, I agree that death scales make a whole lot of sense for Oceana, but I didn't really talk about scales at all. Cold-3 also makes a lot of sense for all underwater nations. I think a lot of what you mention is very situational.

I also did, in fact, mention that laying quickness on the centaurs complements their lance nicely. Haste does not affect first strike (it makes you use less AP to move, doesn't give you AP) and friendly currents doesn't make a significant difference.

[13lackGu4rd]

Originally Posted by earcaraxe

why is cold scale a good idea for underwater nations?

because you don't suffer the income loss of the cold scale in underwater provinces. so it's basically free design points...

[earcaraxe]

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

because you don't suffer the income loss of the cold scale in underwater provinces. so it's basically free design points...

Thanks! that isnt in the manual i think. is there a list for all (most)hot/cold scale effects?

[earcaraxe]

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

because you don't suffer the income loss of the cold scale in underwater provinces. so it's basically free design points...

but does hot scale still reduce income in water provs?