OT: Noob vs Newbie, etc

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

first of all the N word is the same word as the 1 in Latin. second of all the English language has its roots within Latin, so saying it's a different language isn't entirely correct. third of all the "invention" of the N word came from the Latin language, like many other English words, so I really don't understand why you claim it's a "bad example".

1) Its not the same word. The spelling is different to start with, and the meanings are different. It does not simply mean 'black' in english, as in the color. The english slang word is certainly derived from the latin word, but one word arising from another in etymology is different from them being the same thing.
2) Latin is a different language than english. It has different rules on grammar. It has a different vocabulary. This isn't even disputable.
3) Just because a number of words came to English from Latin does not make them the same language. Otherwise English would also be the same language as German, Swedish, Spanish, French, various Native American tongues, and so on. Which would make all those languages the same language (law of identity). As this is clearly false, so is your claim.
4) My point has been and still is that 'Newbie' and 'N00b' are alternate spellings of the same exact word. Not derived from the same word - they are the same word. 'Newbie' also gets spelled as 'Newbee' - it doesn't have a well-defined spelling, because its a slang term. When spoken they are pronounced identically, the spellings are merely different renderings of the same phonemes by people rendering a slang term in text. Different spellings do not make them different words. Its like the alternate renderings Beijing and Peking for the Chinese city - they're the same word, just different spellings based on different romanizations (alphabet-sound associations) of the chinese characters.

how is it better you ask? well, lets see... there is a second meaning, that's a fact. you haven't come across it, and you decide that this meaning doesn't exist. it reminds me of the cliche that you don't believe anything you don't see with your own eyes, and I hope I don't need to tell you how foolish and unrealistic that cliche is... so why is my definition better? because I'm not ignoring the context in which the term is used, unlike what you seem to be doing... but hey, I don't blame you, too many people seem to be unaware of this differentiation thus think it doesn't exist, while the people those terms are used on do feel insulted by the wrong usage of the term, just like blacks are offended by the N word despite it simply meaning the color black...

[/quote]

The N word has never meant the color black in english. This is why your example was and continues to be bad.

You are ignoring the historical context in which the spelling developed on the internet, possibly because you were not online anywhere near the time (most people weren't). You are ignoring the context in which both spellings are used derogatorily. (I'd post some data, but my google search terms would be censored by the forums... Needless to say 'newbie' seems to get as much venomous treatment as 'n00b'). And you are ignoring the context of this community in which neither spelling is thrown around in a derogatory manner generally, nor was it used so in the OP.

Some communities may have arbitrarily assigned different meanings to one spelling or another. This is not those communities. There exist other communities where both or neither are considered derogatory. The point still stands they are the same word, and that neither has particularly derogatory connotations in this community.

[slMagnvox]

Gandalf already said it best,

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

A basic tenant of anything diplomatic or customer service related is that only those that the term is applied to can say whether or not its offensive. It never really works for people outside of that group to say "you should not be offended by this term".

Also Squirrel, they are clearly two separate words. Ask anyone to speak the two words aloud and I would happily wager the vast majority will make noob a monosyllable. Even prime time (American) television has uttered the word noob, as a single syllable, and in a context more derogatory than complimentary. Whether or not they used to be synonyms or which spawned the other is only anachronism. Their modern usage and meaning have evolved well beyond their 1990s origins.

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually the argument that "this is technically true and therefore should not bother you" is one facet of what I think might be a problem with the whole project. There is a reason that techs and experts dont do customer support. CS people act as a buffer in both directions. Clarifying and translating user questions into clearer technical terms, getting the answer from an expert, then translating the techs answer into user language. Often expletives are removed and replaced with PC terms (in both directions). You know what they say "Those who can, do. And those who can't, teach." Altho sometimes its added "Because those who can do, can't teach.".

We have some here who can do both but not as many as think they can. Some who know the answers are just generally rotten at giving those answers. Particularly to new players. This 3-party method of customer support tends to happen automatically in open forums like IRC or this forum. In My Humble Opinion Im not sure that many direct expert-2-newplayer conversations will leave the new player with the best impression of our community anymore than customer service with no experts would.