Trample balance discussion

[HoneyBadger]

Six sizes just aren't enough.

Agema: you're missing the point that the Sphinx in the game *is* just a statue. That's why it can't move. If it was a lion with wings, then yes, winged-lion-size all the way.

Golems should really just be human-sized, maybe size 3 at the most--if you're basing them on the Golem of Prague. The other critters mentioned, Dragons and Juggernauts, really should be as large as an elephant. 1: because Dragons *carried off and ate* elephants-so did Rocs, only Rocs did it in the AIR. And making the Juggernaut anything less than size 6 kindof seems anticlimactic. Even the guy who played him in the X-men movie was about a size 4 or so

And Jesus *was* a hundred feet tall, haven't you ever read the Bible???

And the Ancient Kraken, beloved though he is by me, could use a makeover. It's a fun graphic, but it's starting to show it's age-as in, it would go great as a Pretender for a "Plan 9 from Outer Space" Nation.

[Gandalf Parker]

Why is six sizes too restrictive? Its not as if a slight difference in size will allow one unit to trample the other. There has to be a really large difference. Any size can have many units of many different sizes but for trample the only thing that needs to be reflected by two sizes in Dom is a really large difference. Trample isnt the same as just being able to roll over a creature.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Why is six sizes too restrictive? Its not as if a slight difference in size will allow one unit to trample the other. There has to be a really large difference. Any size can have many units of many different sizes but for trample the only thing that needs to be reflected by two sizes in Dom is a really large difference. Trample isnt the same as just being able to roll over a creature.

I could write several pages on why 6 sizes is insufficient to encompass the range of size among combat-worthy creatures in a (real or) mythical world.

I will sum it up thusly - you can easily fit more than 3 combat functional people in the space that an elephant fills.

I can go into much greater detail if you like, but I think that unless that point can be adequately discounted, then the premise stands.


(EDIT- Bear in mind, the size mechanic impact many other impacts of the game besides trampling, personally I think something like a range from 2-10 would provide greater functionality.)

[HoneyBadger]

If it were up to me, sizes in the game would range from 1 to 12, and combat squares would hold 64 spaces. The sizes themselves wouldn't correspond exactly to their numerical order-while size 1 would equal 1 space, size 12 wouldn't equal 12 spaces on a square. Instead, they'd have these values:

(Size)=(Spaces occupied).
1=1 (dragonfly, Aboleth Polyp.)
2=2 (hoburg, goblin, imp)
3=3 (human sized)
4=4 (shambler, troll, Warhammer ogre)
5=6 (Jotun, unridden horse, shark, Living Pillar, giant eagle)
6=8 (heavy calvalry, unridden moose, unridden drake)
7=12 (Niefel sized, moose + troll rider)
8=16 (Basalt King, Cyclops)
9=24 (monster fish, Aboleth, Titan)
10=36 (elephant, mammoth, earth mother, Aboleth Mind-lord)
11=48 (Dagon, Baluchitherium, Colossal Fetish, Ziz, dragon)
12=64 (filling an entire square: Ancient Kraken, Sphinx, Asp turtle, whale, larger dinosaurs)

[JimMorrison]

So ummmm. You could fit 21 humans in a square, or....?

[HoneyBadger]

Yep, exactly.

I said 12 sizes was a good idea, I never suggested it wouldn't dramatically alter combat in Dominions.

[HoneyBadger]

Yeah, now they play the 'Dukes of Hazard' car horn, it's great!

[Agema]

Your first two paragraphs are the worst act of reductio ad absurdam I've seen in a long time. Please at least try to view my argument with at least some reasonable spirit.

I'm not going to second-guess KO or assume I know his motives. But to me the elephant graphic looks damn large enough to be size 5 or 6. I don't honestly see what the problem with its representation is, or with Titans, krakens, and the rest of it. You know there are 6 sizes. If they look big, you check the size stat to make sure, just like you see a knight and check to see quite how nasty it is. The "feeling" is fine to me, and I suspect most other Dom3 users.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Agema

Your first two paragraphs are the worst act of reductio ad absurdam I've seen in a long time. Please at least try to view my argument with at least some reasonable spirit.

I'm not going to second-guess KO or assume I know his motives. But to me the elephant graphic looks damn large enough to be size 5 or 6. I don't honestly see what the problem with its representation is, or with Titans, krakens, and the rest of it. You know there are 6 sizes. If they look big, you check the size stat to make sure, just like you see a knight and check to see quite how nasty it is. The "feeling" is fine to me, and I suspect most other Dom3 users.

You don't have any argument. Or rather you've changed it to the extent that I have no idea what your position actually is. You first stated graphics were irrelevant to size and are now say elephants look size 5 or 6 so there isn't a problem. No-one has said elephants should be below size 5. The talk has been of setting them at size 5 to nerf them a bit and whether or not that is sensibly justifiable in terms of graphics, realism (to the extent that it's useful) and flavour.

The rest of your post suggests to me you haven't actually looked at the kraken graphic. Not the ancient kraken. The regular summon. I believe the shark is also size 6. It doesn't seem intuitive to me, but being underwater it doesn't come into play that much. It's not something I'd go on and on about.

Regardless, I don't really disagree with your second post. Elephants look size 5 or 6 graphically speaking. Or put another way, considering they're size 6, their graphic looks of an appropriate size. It would also be appropriate for a size 5.

[Xietor]

Btw, I still think MA Arcos is one of the better MA Races. But it is based on their strong astral magic, mind hunts, communions, and reverse communions. But they need elephants to survive early. If Elephants were nerfed, they would no longer be one of the better MA Races. They are in fact better than LA Arcos because astrologers get more s magic then sybils.

Both arcos races are hard to play, as they need much pregame planning. They need thugs to survive in the midgame due to elephants becoming obsolete, and no decent national summons or sacred troops. I am quite happy with the Lich as a pretender for LA Arcos.