oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?

[Atrocities]

I have been repeatedly asked to post my opinion/review of MOO3 and I am reluctant to do so. However, I would like to do something similar, and point out some things that I liked about MOO3, and that I would like to see added to SE V if it is ever developed and released.

Some things that I would love to see transferred from MOO3 into Space Empires 5.

1. The 3D star map.
2. Moveable windows.
3. Wheel mouse support.
4. Construction Planner System.
5. Retreat from Battle option.

SEIV offers far better game play IMO. MOO3 is set up to start the player off as if they know nothing about game play. The AI will do it all. As the person learns the game, they begin to take more and more responsibility away from the AI and do thing more themselves. This is good, as the AI will effectively run your empire. The bad thing is, you never know why the AI is doing what it is doing.

That is where the Planner comes in. A very cool concept and I have to say that I was rather impressed by this. You set a course of action that you want the AI to follow when developing new worlds. It is kind of like what SEIV does, but instead of you having to manually edit the files, as you do in SEIV, you can set up a "shell" out line for the AI to follow in game.

This would be a great addition to SEV, but in great detail. (Allow the player to set TYPE of colony (-IE Resource X, Research, Construction Yard, etc -) and then set up a building plan for that type that the AI will follow every time you choose that TYPE of colony. The AI could also be set up to "choose" needed facilities first, IE via your "COLONY PLAN" out line. This Colony Plan out line would be basically a second layer to the TYPE colony that a player allows the AI to prioritize needed facilities. For example, if your race requires a Space Port, the AI would FIRST build a Space Port on the first inhabited planet. It would then follow your colony TYPE until it ran out of space. If your colony is near an alien controlled system, the AI would also build a Spaceyard, Resupply base, and defenses in order of priority. (You establish the priority in the Colony Plan. So basically you would have the ability to let the AI do all the building without intervention, leave it the way it is, set a Colony Type up, (Basically what you want built on those type of planets each time a that type is selected as the colony type) and the Colony Plan to establish priority facilities, and such. Again this can be left to the AI to determine, but the player can also choose and edit the list.

SE IV is without a doubt a better game, but MOO3 has many good points that can give SEIV a run for its money. Intel, although nowhere as near SEIV levels, it still offers the ability to TRAIN specific types of spies. A cool feature only if you had INTEL projects to go along with them. A counter Intel and Intel cost slider would also be a welcome addition to both SE V and Moo3. I like the idea that they had used for BOTF in that regard. Your generated Intel points could be used for Counter Intel operations as well as Intel operation. With the addition of the spy system, you could gain extra points for having trained spies for a specific expertise in Intel and counter Intel.

I do not really like the 3D battle system for Moo3. I think it is lacking over all. However, games such as Rebellion (1997) and BOTF (1999) had semi good 3D battle engines, and both allowed for rather large fleets. However the trade off was the resource hogging and lock ups caused by these systems of combat. MOO3 system is an interesting concept, but needs to be hashed out over time and will benefit from improvements in later patches. Of this I hold sincere hope.

SEIV makes excellent use of ICONS and the flow of the game is fluidic. Nearly any information you want is a left or right click away. This is one of the reasons SEIV is such a wonderful game. Right Click feature. MOO3 would have done very well for its self if it had incorporated this into system.

The best feature of MOO3 is without a doubt the 3D star map. My god the thing is a work of art. I absolutely love it. If SE V were to have a similar system, while improving INTEL, POLITICS, DIPLOMACY, and keeping the other great aspects that make SEIV a great game, then SE V will be the game of 4 x gamers for the next decade.

In closing I would like to say that SE V does not need 3D space combat. I think the game would work well with the current system. But the addition of extra option for combat would be a godsend. The option to Retreat, or Avoid battle. The option to VIEW the enemy fleet prior to making any combat decisions is a must have. And the ability to pause, or instantly resolve a combat encounter are must haves.

The addition of a better ground combat system would also be a neat feature. Have the combat take place near the planet capitol. If the players attacking Ground Forces are successful, they take the planet. If they are repelled, they loose the planet. Again, it would be a nice addition, but not a necessity.

I would rank MOO3 at about 2.5 on a scale of 5.0 while SEIV is a solid 5.0. MOO3 is a better game to MOO2 than Civ 3 was to Civ 2. So if you want to buy the game, and are willing to invest the time to learn the game, then I would support your decision to buy it. But remember, it is NOT SEIV, so don't expect the same type of game play as your used to.

Atrocities.

[ March 03, 2003, 11:30: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Ed Kolis]

You liked the 3D starmap? Huh, I just found it confusing... sure, it's novel, but when you're used to Zed Prime being to the left of Antares and now when you rotate the map it's down and to the right and you can't figure out how to get the map back to normal... and stars can be farther away then they look on the map, too!

[Tampa_Gamer]

Some good thoughts Atrocities - I agree. I gave MOO3 another 15+ hours of my time this weekend, still trying...

[Atrocities]

Ed your right. But in future patches, and hopefuly if Aaron chooses to do something simular, this problem can be fixed with a simple "Return to Home View" option.

The problem is, we all have gotton so used to thinking in 2D that when faced with a 3D map, it defies our ability to comprehend. Kinda like skiing.

For example when you first start to learn how to snow ski, your legs are sending odd Messages to your brain that say "Hey WTF is going on? We are moving, but I am not causing it!" which causes your balance to falter thus resulting in you falling down and being laughed at by a six year old. But after a while, the legs begin to understand the stimuli, and the mind becomes balanced, and addicted. Then you hunt down that little snot nosed brat and throw high powered snow balls at him causing him to fall down.

[ March 04, 2003, 01:24: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Phoenix-D]

"1. The 3D star map."

What would this add to the game? How is it an improvement?

"2. Moveable windows.
3. Wheel mouse support."

OK, good things.

"4. Construction Planner System."

Err..what? EDIT: Ah. Eh, ambivalent.

5. Retreat from Battle option.

Would depend on how it is implimented.

Phoenix-D

[ March 04, 2003, 01:43: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Bralth]

I'm not sure that MOO3's 3d map is the way to go, but a 3D map with better controls, visiblitiy would be very nice.

Would it add a whole ton? Most likely not (3d combat would of course but thats a different issue) but I've always had a fond spot in my heart for space games that used a 3d map over a 2d one.

[Atrocities]

Like I said, I am sure if Aaron uses such a map system, it would be far better than anything QS has done.

"1. The 3D star map."

What would this add to the game? How is it an improvement?

"2. Moveable windows.
3. Wheel mouse support."

OK, good things.

"4. Construction Planner System."

Err..what? EDIT: Ah. Eh, ambivalent.

5. Retreat from Battle option.

Would depend on how it is implimented.

Phoenix-D

1. Having this map would really be a cool feature. Your right, it would not be an improvement persay, but it would be a cool feature that give SE V a more [i]real]/i] feel to it. If you could see how your star systems play into the bigger picture in a real space, then perphas it could offer you a differant point of view. That system that looked weak and un-important in one view looks a lot more inviting as a strategic point in another. I like the map system, granted its needs a lot of improvement, but it still is one of the best additions to 4 X gaming in a good long time.

2. Glad you agree.
3. Glad you agree.

4. "ambivalent" You got me. I have no idea what that means.

5. Agreed. That feature is very important both before you agree to enter into battle, and after you commit to battle.