[OT] Plato's Pub and Philosophical Society

[Kamog]

I would prefer to live in a Federation of Planets type of society. Technology, science, and medicine are advanced, space exploration and colonization are rapidly progressing, and the society values peace, cooperation, fairness, and freedom. It seems like a pretty much ideal future society. One thing I don't understand, though, is how economics is supposed to work. Supposedly, they don't have money anymore? Or do they?

[Fyron]

When you have a replicator, money means nothing. You can replicate anything you need.

[Suicide Junkie]

Given power and time, of course.

The first things you should replicate are some power plants, and some type of refinery to gather the fuel you need.
A hawking reactor would probably be cheapest, assuming you can get your hands on a really small black hole (borrow one from a romulan ship).
Random matter in, energy out, E=MC^2. Much more unsafe than a Fed style matter-antimatter reactor, but much cheaper to run.
You'd just need to set up camp in an asteroid field, or a trek-density nebula, and you'll be set for life.

[ April 01, 2003, 16:24: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[dogscoff]

For me the best sci-fi universe to live in would be the one from Iain M Banks' Culture novels: Incredibly advanced technology means that lifespans are incredibly long and comfortable and economy/ currency is pretty much irrelevant at the personal level. There is no such thing as government, you can mod your body into absolutely anything you like and there is a proven afterlife at the end of it all. Furthermore, the whole society is maintained and kept stable by these benign Super-AI "Gods" called Minds, and there are a zillion wierd and wonderful places and things to see and do.

Yep, that'd do me...

[Kamog]

I wonder if we will ever get to the point where people don't have to work for a living. Even if we have replicators and unlimited energy, we will probably still need to work. The advancement of technology has not reduced our work hours. Computers and automation have made our industries more efficient but we still don't have a 3-day work week like some people thought we will have. We can get things done faster with technology, but we have to do more each day now. In fact, it seems like people are working longer and longer hours and working more and more. 50 years ago, one person in the family was able to work and comfortably support a spouse and kids and be able to buy a house, car, and other items. Now it seems that in most families, both parents have to work just to get by. The trend seems to be more work, not less.

[dogscoff]

Computers and automation have made our industries more efficient but we still don't have a 3-day work week like some people thought we will have.

You're right, but the thing to remember is that while working people are at the office longer and longer hours, more and more people are unemployed.

Basically, it comes down to the way in which the time-saving benefits of labour saving technology are used to benefit the upper levels of an organisation rather than the lower levels: If a company employs 2 ppl doing the same job, and then a gizmo is invented that means the job can be done in half the time, does the company halve both their hours or lay one of them off?

In France they've passed a law where you're not allowed to work more than X hours a week. I think X is about 35 or 40. This is a cool idea- it caused some problems while people adapted but hopefully it will reduce unemployment and improve standards of living. I think the whole world should be heading this way.

[General Woundwort]

[quote]Originally posted by dogscoff:

Basically, it comes down to the way in which the time-saving benefits of labour saving technology are used to benefit the upper levels of an organisation rather than the lower levels: If a company employs 2 ppl doing the same job, and then a gizmo is invented that means the job can be done in half the time, does the company halve both their hours or lay one of them off?

In France they've passed a law where you're not allowed to work more than X hours a week. I think X is about 35 or 40. This is a cool idea- it caused some problems while people adapted but hopefully it will reduce unemployment and improve standards of living. I think the whole world should be heading this way.

Yes, and France thereby gets the worst of both possible worlds - high unemployment and declining productivity. If you're going to have a massive welfare state, you must have a large pool of labor and capital to support all those who don't/cant work. And if your workers are limited by law as to how long they can work, you are capping potential production (and thereby potential new jobs and tax revenue) by default. The French model just isn't working. But they've had it so long that when they try to scale it back, they get strikes (even "strikes" by college students - college students).