[OT] Military (non-political) discussion of Iraq war

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Aloofi:
Obviously you didn't read my post to the end.
I said city enviroment, where the short ranges and inside houses cover would practically nulified the Abrams range advantage.
City enviroment would allow the defending army to pre-range killing pits lasing the entry locations.
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No, I read your post. I just think that for your scenario to play out would require more than just good tactics on the part of the Iraqis. It would also require a monumental level of stupidity from the US tank to blunder blindly into such a "kill-zone". But strager things have happened I suppose. On balance though I think our tanks have more to fear from our aircraft then they do from the enemy tanks.

Geoschmo

[tesco samoa]

The Bradleys performed fantastic.

Now that it is proven they can take on a t-72 , this really opens up some interesting senero's for the US forces.

[tesco samoa]

And I also must say that the logistics train should be proud of their work. A lot of ground was covered quickly and effectively and supplied. Very good planning and very good men and woman who completed the jobs to keep the machine running smoothly.

[rextorres]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Aloofi:
Obviously you didn't read my post to the end.
I said city enviroment, where the short ranges and inside houses cover would practically nulified the Abrams range advantage.
City enviroment would allow the defending army to pre-range killing pits lasing the entry locations.
.
.
.

No, I read your post. I just think that for your scenario to play out would require more than just good tactics on the part of the Iraqis. It would also require a monumental level of stupidity from the US tank to blunder blindly into such a "kill-zone". But strager things have happened I suppose. On balance though I think our tanks have more to fear from our aircraft then they do from the enemy tanks.

Geoschmo

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This argument leads to a question I have. Air power not with standing - If the Iraqis had had better training could they have put up more of a fight or was the technology so overpowering that training was a moot question?

I was listening to a report were a Marine was "thanking the lord" that the Iraqis could not shoot straight.

[Krsqk]

I was listening to a report were a Marine was "thanking the lord" that the Iraqis could not shoot straight.

That doesn't necessarily mean the Iraqi's would have fared much better if they could have shot straight. I would take it to mean that he was relieved they had so relatively few casualties, not that he was worried about being outclassed.

[geoschmo]

Rex, better training would have cetainly enabled them to put up more of a fight. Beyond just training though they appear to have lacked a will to fight in many cases. Whether this was a realization that defeat was inevitable, or just an unwillingness to die for the regime is not known. Most likely it's a little of both.

Geoschmo

[Alpha Kodiak]

I would certainly agree that lack of training/lack of will to fight amongst the Iraqis had to have a significant impact. Determined resistance, even with a serious technological inferiority, should have been able to do more damage than we saw. One other factor may have been that the Iraqi military does not encourage initiative amongst its lower lever troops, even lower level officers. If command and control were disrupted then they might have had no clue how to set up a reasonable defense. I don't think that was all of it, but it may have added to their problems.