Moo3 is a shareware now

[Atrocities]

Ya I remember when Tribes 2 came out, the backlash and negativity about the game cost Dynamix is company.

The problem was, and might be for MOO3 as well, was the pressure from fans and corporate overlords was to get the game out ASAP with the attitude that we can fix the problems on the fly in patches. A truly bad philosophy that often more than is the driving force behind game design and marketing.

Dynamix was a company full of revolutionary programmers who loved the game they were making. If people would have READ the requirements for the game before buying it, then perhaps all of the BS could have been avoided. Tribes 2 is a wonderful game, but many Tribes 1 fans never gave it a chance.

The thing about MOO3 though is that it should have been at least as good as MOO2. Hell BOTF was based off of MOO2 and it was a great game. (Although not at first warmly received by fans with to high of expectations.)

I love the Galaxy map system in MOO3, and wish that other 4x developers would follow that concept.

One thing to know is if you compare SEIV to other 4X games you will see that Aaron focused the majority of the available game area on the System map and very little on the Galaxy map. He used icons instead of menus, and his pop up windows all have a basic symmetry to them. Everything flows together well, and logically.

Moo3's interface was claustrophobic at best, nicely colored but with bad fonts. I liked a lot of that were included in MOO3, but over all the lack of ease of use and the feeling of always being trapped in the menus ruined the game for me.

I hated the fact that there were no right click menus, and every time I clicked on a fleet that damned "Do you want disband the fleet" window popped up.

Combine the fact that there were no easy ways to do anything in MOO3 really tanked the game. I love how easy it is in SEIV to build and send a colony ship to a specific planet. In MOO3 that was virtually impossible.

I loved how I can easily and simply research new technologies, design ships, and control my planetary construction ques. MOO3 was far to complicated and did not allow for the freedom needed in order to give the player a sense of control.

The SitRep was flat out atrocious. It was neither intuitive nor helpful. The LOG in SEIV is very helpful and intuitive by contrast.

Over all, MOO3 had a lot of great ideas, but poor implantation and questionable design choices really undermined the entire game. For that I am very sorry, but what can one do? Either learn how to play it, or do what I did and give up on it.

[ June 12, 2003, 10:06: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Loser]

ATTENTION MoO3 CRITICS: Could the unpatchable (intentional) "flaws" in the game not be summed up as "They tried to make a micromanagement free 4X game."?

[minipol]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Hell BOTF was based off of MOO2 and it was a great game. (Although not at first warmly received by fans with to high of expectations.)

I liked BOTF too. I never really understood every bodys gripes. It seems to me that nowadays, when 1 person starts whining about a game, it's automatically true and it spreads like a virus. A lot of people seem to find it a sport to bash programmers. True, a lot of games are released prematurely. I remember Daggerfall. Bugged like hell ( it was actually 1 big bug with some game in there ) but i liked it and i played it.

[Roanon]

Originally posted by Loser:
ATTENTION MoO3 CRITICS: Could the unpatchable (intentional) "flaws" in the game not be summed up as "They tried to make a micromanagement free 4X game."?

Problem is they created a totally management-free game. And labelled the so created Sim-Galaxy game as "strategy game". Apart from most people not liking sim-type games, this (intentional) non-fulfilling of promises and expectations is causing the many irate responses and attacks aimed at QS and Atari.

Would they have sold the game as what it really is, they wouldn't have gotten so much heat. Well, and about a tenth of the sales also, but thats another story.

[Erax]

There's a reason why most SEIV gamers hated MoO3. We all love micromanagement (see the 'SE IV code' thread) and SEIV delivers it to us in grand style.

This does not mean that we represent the sum total of the strategy space gamer community. There must be many people out there who want to conquer the galaxy in two-minute, five-clicks-of-the-mouse turns.

Sim games have their own market. If Atari had aimed at them and not at, well, gamers like us, they might have had pretty good sales on MoO3. We would still hate it but the game wouldn't be such a fiasco.

That having been said, it is never a good idea to pull a gentre switch on your public. It is better to re-release the same game with better graphics (anyone remember Terror from the Deep ?) than to give your public something they do not want and weren't expecting.

[eddieballgame]

Originally posted by Chief Engineer Erax:
There's a reason why most SEIV gamers hated MoO3. We all love micromanagement (see the 'SE IV code' thread) and SEIV delivers it to us in grand style.

This does not mean that we represent the sum total of the strategy space gamer community. There must be many people out there who want to conquer the galaxy in two-minute, five-clicks-of-the-mouse turns.

Sim games have their own market. If Atari had aimed at them and not at, well, gamers like us, they might have had pretty good sales on MoO3. We would still hate it but the game wouldn't be such a fiasco.

That having been said, it is never a good idea to pull a gentre switch on your public. It is better to re-release the same game with better graphics (anyone remember Terror from the Deep ?) than to give your public something they do not want and weren't expecting.

Sorry to repeat myself, but MOO3 has more than enough micromanaging available if one so desires. MOO3 is also a very good strategy game, as there are numerous & constant decisions one can be involved in. This game is also moddable to suit one's taste in many areas. Where MOO3 really excels is in Online multiplay. Something this "genre" has been less then impressive. It is not perfect, but it is very good.
I know, I play it, it is fun! I also like SEIV, a very impressive program. Much to appreciate thanks to the people who play & the designer who listens.
I am hopeful MOO3's fan support will be as impressive as SEIV's is.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

i'm not a fan of micromanagement, like it sometimes, not others. and i like simcity, there's control, just not direct control. got 153 eq once by building a city of squares on a flat map. each square contained a six by six area. very effecient. then there's finding a good design on a random map without bulldozing anything up or down. you sorta have to flow with the terrain. i'm getting a mayoral urge again.
botf - birth of the federation? is there a demo for that? so far, i don't like the galciv demo. although it could be that i can't figure out how the turns work my survey ship seems to be able to travel forever as long as i click on it again. and the demo makes me feel crowded, i don't think you really can play it with only one ai race.

[ June 13, 2003, 09:04: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]