Copywrite laws are they to vague?

[Pax]

Originally posted by PvK:I never suggested removing the concept of copyright and not having anything to serve its good purposes.

Yet, to make fan art and otehr derivative works no longer protected by copyright (and, as an aside, trademark) laws ... you would have to do that very thing.

What I do suggest though are that:

* Fan art shouldn't be a copyright violation nor any concern of any lawyers, to include Marvel characters in Dungeon Odyssey mods, or Star Trek ships in SE4 mods.

Define "fan art" in such a way that it does not permit, by any reasonable means, person X to profit off the creativity of person Y, without Y receiving their fair share ... ? Assuming Y does not give X permission from teh get-go, of course.

* The existing patent and copyright systems are flawed.

The only flaw is that the period of protection has been extended indefinitely. Had we stuck to the original terms, the situation would be much better.

* Ideally and eventually, the existing systems will be replaced by something very different, because it's fundamentally silly and wasteful to not use computers and networks to do what they do with great and natural ease - duplicate and distribute data which, once we get over our ancient and corrupt economic and legal institutions,

PvK, no offense, but your repeated cries against how corrupt, monolithically-conspiratorial "megacorporations" controlling this, that, and the other ... leaves me with nothing so much as the impression that you are, in a word ... a crackpot.

I'm serious. The copyright law itself is not what is flawed ... it is the additions and modifications to it that are the problem. And specifically, the interminable extensions of protected status.

will allow us to use it to share all data with everyone freely. All that's required is a replacement for the corporate-dominated system of employment and intellectual property ownership, so that creative people can earn a reasonable wage by virtue of how much people appreciate their work, without a corporate monster devouring most of the profit and dictating what everyone creates.

Except, by the things you've described, there would be no way to guarantee that the most "appreciated" creative work would ever generate one thin dime for the author!

It's a little something I've heard called "the ******* factor" (pardon the language); you, PvK, might want to think there are enough good and honest people in the world that some sort of "honor system" would work ...

... but you'd be wrong; you'd be vastly overestimating humanity. And, perhaps more to the point, grossly UNDER-estimating man's capacity to be *******s to their fellow man.

People steal. It's that simple; theft has been with us from before we achieved sentience, and won't be going away anytime soon.

And when people steal, you need laws to PROTECT those who are stolen FROM.

It is not the fault of those laws, that they have been ABUSED by various corporate (and other) concerns.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Pax:
PvK, no offense, but your repeated cries against how corrupt, monolithically-conspiratorial "megacorporations" controlling this, that, and the other ... leaves me with nothing so much as the impression that you are, in a word ... a crackpot.

Nice. "No offense" but you're a "crackpot" Gee how could someone be offended by being called a crackpot.

[Pax]

[quote]Originally posted by DavidG:

Nice. "No offense" but you're a "crackpot" Gee how could someone be offended by being called a crackpot.

Back at you.

I didn't CALL him an actual crackpot; I said his words leave me with that IMPRESSION. There is a difference with saying one is left with the impression of someone being something, and saying they actually are that thing.

And IMO, PvK's not-quite-IMO-rational opposition to all things corporate is teetering dangerously on the edge of that particular precipice.

Sue me for being completely honest, eh?

[Phoenix-D]

He does have a point. If you, say, eliminate copyright entirely, you get something like so:

Guy makes a web comic, its popular. He isn't getting paid, but he doesn't care because he likes doing it. He has a modest, not huge, readership.

Someone else (with more money) sees this, turns his creation into a huge, over-marketed over commericalized thing. No one will go near the web comic except the original viewers, because they naturally think its a rip off of the over-marketed thing. The over-marketed rip off eventually dies its inevitable death, leaving the first guy with..jack. He gains nothing from the cash grab, and most people have been turned off his comic now too.

I see only a few problems with copyright law, and one of them is a law in general problem.

1. It Lasts too long, and really shouldn't be renewable.

2. Its too expensive to defend yourself from accusations, or go after violators. Smaller Groups HAVE been run into the ground by baseless (but expensive!) lawsuits.

[Pax]

Originally posted by PvK:
it's fundamentally silly and wasteful to not use computers and networks to do what they do with great and natural ease - duplicate and distribute data which, once we get over our ancient and corrupt economic and legal institutions, will allow us to use it to share all data with everyone freely. All that's required is a replacement for the corporate-dominated system of employment and intellectual property ownership, so that creative people can earn a reasonable wage by virtue of how much people appreciate their work, without a corporate monster devouring most of the profit and dictating what everyone creates.

Another thought for you, turning your words above to another concept and end:

it's fundamentally silly and wasteful to not use nuclear armaments and delivery systems to do what they do with great and natural ease - destroy cities and slay millions of innocents which, once we get over our respect for human life, will allow us to use it to obliterate all life on this planet. All that's required is a replacement for the instinctive system of morality, so that psychotic people can kill untold millions of people, without a single shred of guilt.

[ June 23, 2003, 19:06: Message edited by: Pax ]

[Phoenix-D]

Uh, Pax? I think I speak for more than myself when I say:

Where the HELL did that come from?

[Rojero]

Ditto