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  #1  
Old July 11th, 2003, 12:55 AM
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narf poit chez BOOM narf poit chez BOOM is offline
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Default Re: OT : Australian intervention in Solomon Islands

and this is how militia Groups form. all of them, in essense, believe they are protecting there own little group. the rule of law must be upheld. everyone must receive justice.

Quote:
The fact is that there were plenty of divorces, unwanted pregnancies, STDs, and unscrupulous rakes back in more austere periods of history. It simply wasn't talked about back then. I know this for a fact because it happened quite a bit in my families history and, thinking this must be some terribly uncommon trend, I eventually looked deeper into the issue.

The problems were just covered up better back then. A good percentage of Charm Schools and Boarding Schools were actually Schools for Wayward Girls (institutions for hiding pregnancy). Lack of birth control just meant that most 'loose women' were professionals, and the natural increase in prostitution adds to organized crime, it does not add to general virtue.
although i wasn't thinking of that, i am aware of said theories regarding boarding houses, although i cannot say by what i know wether said theories are correct. if they are, any such problems where probably caused by ignoring said social problems, which nearly always makes them worse. i don't like band-aid solutions.
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Old July 11th, 2003, 12:57 AM

Sinapus Sinapus is offline
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Default Re: OT : Australian intervention in Solomon Islands

Quote:
Originally posted by oleg:
quote:
Originally posted by sachmo:
...But we will protect ourselves, and that's where things get ugly. I am an American, and I want my children to grow up and be safe. Whatever it takes.
So how many Iraqi children want you trade for one American? All of them ?

How nice. An either/or fallacy with cynical appeal to emotion. Not to mention a bit insulting. Shall I ask how many Iraqi children you were willing to "trade" for "keeping religious fanatics in check" or similar?

If you really want to play the appeal to emotions/"what about the chiiilllldren" game, you might want to stop and think about a few things.

Quote:
And why do you belive what US goverment is doing is actually protecting your chieldren ?
Because I don't expect barbarians to play nice. (No, I don't think the Iraqis are barbarians. They certainly were ruled by some until Last April. Al Qaeda and other Groups also fit that description.)

. o O(Why do I get the feeling someone's going to bring in the "well why didn't you go liberate some repressive nation arbitrarily chosen and preferably way out in some area that would take months to deploy to" claim? Wonder if they think WWII was illegitimate because we didn't bust open all the Gulags? Wonder if they're going to use that first claim, then say we don't have enough troops in Iraq? )
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Old July 11th, 2003, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: OT : Australian intervention in Solomon Islands

Quote:
Originally posted by oleg:
So how many Iraqi children want you trade for one American? All of them ?

And why do you belive what US goverment is doing is actually protecting your chieldren ? I have a feeling US became less secure after this colonial war. Saddam was no danger for US as we can see now. He had no WMD and was keeping religious fanatics in check.
That was really stupid. How many American young men gave their lives to keep Hitler from
spanking all of Europe? After the English had proclaimed “Peace in our time.” and paid a full
measure of appeasement? And the time before that when Europe took the world to war over the killing of a has-been royal that probably would have not been able to maintain his holdings for
another generation. And in the process set communism loose on the world. Which America
then held off at your door step for 50 years at great cost in lives and materials. And lets not
forget that most of this crap in the Middle East right now is the result of French and English
diplomacy at the end of world wars. IMHO it is far better to stamp the **** out of evil
governments right at the start, than to wait until the situation takes on an energy of it own. You speak with the naiveté of a person who has never risked all that he had for the benefit of others.

[ July 11, 2003, 00:36: Message edited by: Thermodyne ]
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Old July 11th, 2003, 01:44 AM

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Default Re: OT : Australian intervention in Solomon Islands

*Ahem* Just to get things a little bit back on topic.

Continuing my story...

While being held under house arrest, the Prime Minister Ulufalu was forced to resign under duress. After the TPA was signed, there was some doubt as to the legality of the resignation, but the S.I. Parliament eventually decided to name a new P.M., Sogavaere and organize new elections. This happened in 2002, and the Sogavaere government was kicked out and Allen Kamekeza was named P.M., continuing till today.

In practice, both Sogavaere and Kemakeza followed the same policy towards the militants. Where Ulufalu held firm and refused to bow to their demands, the policy of the Sogavaere and Kemakeza governments was one of appeasement. Basically, whatever the guys with guns asked for, the government gave it to them.

For example, following the TPA, the government decided to compensate the displaced Malaitans with money which the Ozzie and NZ governments rather stupidly lent to the S.I. government. Naturally, the families of the cabinet members and senior members of the supposedly defunct MEF got first priority.

Many former MEF members were also recruited into a sort of semi-legal paramilitary group called the "Special Constables" (SC). They were also offered sums of money in return for giving up their guns. They took advantage of the offer by giving up only the oldest and broken down guns, but held on to the big, bad, automatic weapons. Their excuse: Harold Keke is still somewhere out there in the jungle. Disarm him first, and then we'll disarm. All the while, the "Special Constables" (SC) make all sorts of spurious claims ("danger allowance", 'family allowance" etc.) and the government keeps paying them off. After all, it's all someone else's money.

Naturally, the government's finances are a big mess, and the wages of ordinary government employees keep being delayed for longer and longer periods of time. A couple of weeks ago, one of the judges of S.I., a pretty good guy I might add, courageously announced in the newspapers, that with the constant delays in his wage payments and the very low level of his wages, he was in real and serious danger of being bribed, and he warned of the consequences to the country should this continue. Of course, the P.M. makes sure that the wages of the SC are *never* late.

In the meantime, Harold Keke is making a nuisance of himself to the Gualais, his very own people. He doesn't dare show his face in Honiara, where the Malaitans will gun him down on sight, but out in the bush, he's king, happily raping, robbing and murdering and no one to stop him. His people supported him at first, because they thought he'd stand up for them against the Malaitans, but it turns out he's not so good against Malaitans and they hate him with a vengeance.

Pretty much the same thing in the Western Province (WP). The BRA came and then refused to leave, terrorizing the towns and villages all over the western side of S.I. The BRA thing is now under control though, which is a credit to the WP people, but that certainly isn't the doing of anyone in the federal government.

Right now, it's every man for himself in the government departments. Each Government department wants fees paid to them directly and not the Ministry of Finance. You get the idea. The idea that the government should compensate the people for any losses whatsoever that they have suffered, no matter how spurious, has filtered down to the general Malaitan populace as well, so that the Ministry of Finance building is in a constant state of siege.

The more obviously corrupt the Government becomes, the less relevant it becomes to the people of S.I. Currently, the Government has very little influence outside of the capital.

And that's about all I can say about the state of the country right now. I could go on, but then I'll have to name specific people and practices, and I could get into trouble for that.
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Old July 11th, 2003, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: OT : Australian intervention in Solomon Islands

Deccan:

I have a question, who funds all of this?
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Old July 11th, 2003, 02:11 AM

Baron Grazic Baron Grazic is offline
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Default Re: OT : Australian intervention in Solomon Islands

From one of Deccan's comments, it looks like I could be, as an Australia tax payer...
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Old July 11th, 2003, 03:06 AM
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Default Re: OT : Australian intervention in Solomon Islands

Quote:
Originally posted by Baron Grazic:
From one of Deccan's comments, it looks like I could be, as an Australia tax payer...
It does sort of have that stink that colonial interventions used to have.

The mine companies move in and then begin to suffer from local unrest. A few people die and
next thing you know, some guys in red jackets are protecting your brand new governor. All this
and more out of the kindness of the crown.

Now if there were snake eating advisors and strange companies providing un-needed services.
Then I would be looking closer to home
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