OT: Brazilian Launch Facility

Loser · #1 August 25th, 2003, 02:30 PM

Thanks, Makinus. I finally managed to get to the Factbook and read up on Brazil a bit. It is very good to see the structure of your government and especially the divided legislature, absent from so many developed countries and world powers. I hope your people are able to deal with the corruption in government without abandoning your 1988 constitution.

I also admire the popular election of your president. I never much cared for the Electoral College in the U.S, since we assume the popular choice will be elected, indeed many states specify how their College member vote based on the popular vote and the number of such members is determined by population... so why is it not a popular vote? Not a big deal, but really...

Chronon · #2 August 25th, 2003, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loser:
I also admire the popular election of your president. I never much cared for the Electoral College in the U.S, since we assume the popular choice will be elected, indeed many states specify how their College member vote based on the popular vote and the number of such members is determined by population... so why is it not a popular vote? Not a big deal, but really...

I agree. And I think it is a big deal, because our Last presidential election would have turned out differently (and probably the Last three years of world politics, too) if our electoral system were like Brazil's.

Makinus · #3 August 25th, 2003, 05:50 PM

One thing i find strange in your (US) elections: if in Brazil we have an entirely eletronic voting system (where the citizen just punches in a special computer the number of his candidate), why the US, in several states, the vote is still in the old paper system?

We have almost imediate results in elections, with accuracy assured by computers, while using paper votes you have a long process to "count" all votes, normally done by humans, that, intentionally or no, can give inacurate results.

Geckomlis · #4 August 25th, 2003, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Makinus:
One thing i find strange in your (US) elections: if in Brazil we have an entirely eletronic voting system (where the citizen just punches in a special computer the number of his candidate), why the US, in several states, the vote is still in the old paper system?

We have almost imediate results in elections, with accuracy assured by computers, while using paper votes you have a long process to "count" all votes, normally done by humans, that, intentionally or no, can give inacurate results.

Technological Determinism Answer:
It is called technology “lock-in”. Why do some developing nations have newer, faster, more cost-efficient telecommunications systems than the USA? Because the USA has the most extensive and developed telecommunications system in the world and a correspondingly huge legacy infrastructure. The USA has the same problem with voting technology.

Socio-Political Answer:
Each administrative unit in the USA has local authority over voting. For example, I live in the state of Pennsylvania. I live in a small, incorporated borough (village, town) inside a township (traditionally 16 square miles) inside a county. 30+ townships in my county, 67 counties in Pennsylvania. We generally elect school district Boards here, but school district domains do not follow municipal boundaries, i.e. they can cross multiple counties or any number of smaller administrative units’ boundaries. Each of those voting units has some local degree of authority over voting.

When I lived in the state of Maryland, there were no townships and very few incorporated boroughs. Generally, the smallest administrative unit was the county and the counties ran the schools. Much more efficient, but very different than Pennsylvania. So all of the states in the USA vary in their voting practices as well.

Do not ask me about taxes…!

Getting everyone to agree to replace the voting technology they have already purchased previously and to coordinate that effort above the local level is politically impossible most of the time.

geoschmo · #5 August 25th, 2003, 08:56 PM

We could have a whole thread discussing the pros and cons of the electoral college system.

Here's an interesting article about it for anyone wanting something deeper then the typical arguments that come up on the subject. It was written before the 2000 election mess.

http://www.avagara.com/e_c/reference/00012001.htm

Loser · #6 August 26th, 2003, 03:16 PM

Nice one Geo. I'm passing that around like and AOLer with a survey.

Andr�s · #7 August 26th, 2003, 08:31 PM

I didn't know how your electoral system works.
Let's see if I get this right.
Electors are proportional to the number of congressmen of each state, who are proportional to the population of each state.
This systems prevent a small state with a high voters ratio to disbalance the election. (Note that in other countries like my own, mandatory vote is suposed to prevent tis disbalance. But that has its own pros and cons.)
Wouldn't it be possible to weight votes in a similar way with a simple mathematical formula without the need of electors in the middle?