OT- LOTR fan discussion thread - SPOILER WARNING

[dogscoff]

Yeah, Tolkien's intention with the LOTR (+ Silmarillion etc) was to create some kind of fake mythology for Britain, since much of our Celtic heritage was lost with the various invasion of the first millenium. He drew on all kinds of other mythologies and blended them, just as real mythtologies borrowed ideas from one another. So it makes sense that his geography would have some kind of parallel with out own.

There's also been a lot of debate about where the "real" Middle Earth is, since Tolkien lived in quite a few different places in his life. There is a certain rivalry for the crown of "real middle earth" between Dorset (Where I live, and where Tolkien spent a lot of his life- there's a pub down the hill from me called the Tapp and Hobbit) and somewhere up in the Midlands. I also think he may have spent some time in NZ (I could be wrong about this) and that is one of the reason PJ shot the film there- apart from the varied spectaular scenry, of course.

[Growltigger]

Cant remember the name of the book written by Christopher Tolkien, but it said that the Shire was modelled on England around Thame/Reading/Oxfordshire, but definately middle England.

Tolien seemed to shy away from any analogy of what he was trying to create. I beleive many people said that Numenor was an analogy to Atlantis (hell it sank!), which Tolkien rebutted strongly.

I dont think the Elves were ever meant to be North America, unless Geo is coming out of the closet about his propensity to wearing pointy ears, a blonde wig and poncing round in forests!! I can see Elrond saying "Time to head to the West, y'all get that?" - I suppose Varda/Elbereth is meant to be Hilary Clinton?

Not sure I like the idea of Mordor being London, and Gondor being Welsh. At no place in the book does Boromir hack the head off an orc and say "Boyo Take That Butty Bach", and I expect the fact the orcs all talk like they come from tne East End of London is just happenstance. In my opinion, they should all have had Cleveland accents.

[geoschmo]

Actually after I posted that I found a quote of Tolkien caying Mordor in his mind is roughly where the Balkans are. The map in my head was a bit too small I guess. So would put the Shire in great Britain as you say. And Gondor somewhere in mid/southern Europe. Say France or Italy. So the Dwarves are from Holland? How vierd.

[Captain Kwok]

I've just started to re-read the trilogy again after seeing the movies a number of times, well, lots of times. I'm really starting to pick up and how they used a lot of the dialogue from the book (more or less, word-for-word) although sometimes in different settings, for example, the Frodo-Gandalf conversation about Gollum and pity etc. moved to Moria in the FoTR movie. Anyways, they did a fantastic job bringing the books to the screen and I've throughly enjoyed each film and I cannot wait for the Extended Edition of RoTK.

[gravey101]

yes, I thought that too. Particularly in the ROTK. I think Theoden's speech before the Pelennor Fields particularly comes to mind. It is intresting, that for the most part IMO, the most striking dialogue in the movies is that which comes word for word from the books. I too am re-reading the books. Funny how now I cannt help but associate the mvie characters faces and voices with the characters in the book now.

[ January 08, 2004, 15:31: Message edited by: gravey101 ]

[Growltigger]

Gravey101, I agree with you totally, I cannot imagine anything in the book without reverting to the images used in the film EXCEPT for the trolls.

Dunno why, but I still have the trolls in my head as kind of like big orcs, rather than the doughboy things pictured in the movie.

Geo, I guess Gondor is kind of round Rome/Greece (certainly the style of buildings used in the movie look like a cross between renaissance and classical architecture).

Dwarfs? not Holland, no mountains (or hills for that matter) unless that was your joke - more like Norway I feel. You can imagine Gimli doing the Swedish chef impression with his axe

[Fyron]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
i would argue that he is the most powerfull being on middle earth; the demi-gods are all on that island which isn't part of middle earth any more. in the FOTR, he said that if he kept the ring, all the other lands would fall to darkness, then his. since he appears to be totally unnafected by the ring, that would mean he wouldn't use it even if it didn't corrupt him, and the most powerfull would tend to get conquered Last.

that logic might not hold if he could use it without being corrupted and would use it to hold them off at the Last.

Being uncorruptable and being powerful are two different things. I don't think he could have used the ring at all. His fate was not intertwined with it, which is what makes him not subject to its influence.

Also, you are forgetting that the Maiar are also demi-gods, though lesser demi-gods. Sauron, Gandalph and Sauruman are all Maiar.

[ January 08, 2004, 17:39: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]