OT: Atrocities

Renegade 13 · #1 May 1st, 2004, 10:27 PM

I think the biggest problem is lack of real, quality information. Not the stuff the news media hands us, which is always slanted one way or the other, but real hard facts that cannot be disputed. Sure, pictures could be considered "hard" evidence, but we all know pictures can be manipulated to show whatever people want.

I'm not saying the pictures of torture and abuse are false, I'm just saying that we really have no way of knowing what is really happening over there in Iraq. No one does, except those who are over there, fighting for their lives.

For this reason, I think it is very difficult to form an opinion on matters such as these, when all of us here lack any quality information.

And here's a scary thought: What atrocities are occurring over there that we know nothing about?? Perhaps by the forces of both sides of the conflict??

[ May 01, 2004, 21:29: Message edited by: Renegade 13 ]

Aiken · #2 May 1st, 2004, 10:30 PM

I'm personally far from idea that american soldiers are bloodthirsty slaughterers. They're simply human, who can fear, hate and want to avenge. But if your foe is animal you don't have to be animal too. Where is only way to prevent soldiers from being murderers - order.
Remember legions of Roman empire. They fought with wild tribes but they kept the high culture of war, and their famous discipline brought them victories, not superior "high-tech" weapon.
If US wants to achive some results in Iraq, your generals have to use this ancient experience.

[ May 01, 2004, 21:32: Message edited by: aiken ]

primitive · #3 May 1st, 2004, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stone Mill:
.
.
1. News agencies are reporting that the SSgt who ran the camp somewhat claimed something to the effect that he wasn't trained on the geneva convention. Hogwash. I remember during my service that was reinforced ad nauseum, from basic training to promotion tests. He should have known better.

Geneva convention ?
AFAIK the Geneva convention is not in effect in Iraq. The Geneva convention regulates (among other things) how to treat prisoners of war. Apart from Saddam himself (and maybe a select few others) there are no Prisoners of War in Iraq. Only detainees and terror suspects. The great GWB himself set the standard how to treat those when he set both the Geneva convention and US law aside with the Guantamo prisoners. Why should the prisoners in Iraq have a different and better status ? The blame goes all the way to the top.

primitive · #4 May 1st, 2004, 11:01 PM

Re: LordOffenders (the sock puppet ?) post.
This really fails to piss me off. Ignorant Idiots are everywhere. They are only dangerous when assembled in large numbers (like in Al Qaeda or the KKK) or when elected president

Baron Munchausen · #5 May 1st, 2004, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Will:

--edit2: ... and I just noticed that LordOffender's first post was this one. At the risk of going off topic -- Welcome to the Boards, LordOffender. Please don't get discouraged by the "hot-button" threads like these, we really are all nice people, it's just there can be some heated disagreements

Exactly. We're all familiar with the concept of a TROLL here, aren't we? Doesn't the name strike you as a bit suspicious?

[ May 01, 2004, 22:49: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Will · #6 May 2nd, 2004, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:

quote:
Originally posted by Will:

--edit2: ... and I just noticed that LordOffender's first post was this one. At the risk of going off topic -- Welcome to the Boards, LordOffender. Please don't get discouraged by the "hot-button" threads like these, we really are all nice people, it's just there can be some heated disagreements

Exactly. We're all familiar with the concept of a TROLL here, aren't we? Doesn't the name strike you as a bit suspicious?

Oh, I am quite familiar with the concept of trolling. I've read /. before you know

But, if you take a look at his member profile, he joined April 8th. So he's been lurking around for at least three weeks, and decided to post first on this topic. I would think that a troll would begin posting inflammatory stuff as soon as registration went through, not three weeks later.

I give the benefit of the doubt. Especially when I know a lot of otherwise very decent people who hold the same opinions about what should be done with the Iraqis, and just what corner of Hell they should burn in. All of it is nonsense to those of us who realize that Iraqis are people just like us, but oversimplification, revenge, jingoism, etc. get in the way sometimes for others.

EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro · #7 May 3rd, 2004, 07:38 PM

Well, I just read that the American's aren't the only ones now charged with prisoner abuse. Some rogue members of the British Army absolutely went nutso on some prisoners in Basra. Beaten within inches of their life, then thrown from a moving truck, Last known fate unknown. When found out, the officer in charge told them to get rid of the evidence! Not to stop but to make sure they aren't found out.
at www.themirror.co.uk
I'd like to think that I'd be a fair and just person, but dealing with that level of danger and frustration day in and day out I could probably just as easily go medieval on some poor soul.
Why wasn't Al Jazzera reporting on items like this when it was going on ALL THE TIME