Dominions 2. AI. Suggestions, that how to fix it.

[Gandalf Parker]

Gandalf, your question was that what heavy units the AI should build.
I think that it is not our job to make suggestions about this one. The devs will know that what -and- how, since we do not know that AI scripts.

Yes it is. The Devs have asked for specific examples. It may give them ideas of where the AI should be modified. Or it may give us some more awareness on the problems here. People say that the devs are ignoring these threads but this is a 15 page thread that was answered numerous times starting with the second post. We seem to be ignoring their answers.

We could just start with one nation. When people say that the AI isnt using enough hvy units, what AI are they referring to? What units? If we can come up with a formula then we can compare that formula to other nations to see how it would go.

Illwinter listening to players debate formulas is what made Dom1 what it was.

[DominionsFan]

Hey, I think that the AI should mix the heavy units, IE. it should use all of them. I think that all of the heavy troops are very good.
I am always using lot of different heavy troops and it is working very well.

[NTJedi]

The developers want specific examples...

I believe the developers should have the AI create armies which they feel would be effective during gameplay. Hopefully they've played the game enough to know what combinations make a powerful attack force.
The current build of having massive amounts of small troops should be left for the 'easy AI' setting.
-On the same note: If NASA asked how to build a good space shuttle... I would look them in the eye and say 'Your the Experts' .

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The only suggestion I highly recommend is having the AI opponent able to build multiple/random types of army combinations. If only one default army design is built the human players will quickly learn then master it.

[-Storm-]

I don't get it. We had a suggestion that the AI should build more Heavy troops. So than? It should build HI, HC, summon powerful monsters etc. etc.
Why is this so complicated??

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by -Storm-:
I don't get it. We had a suggestion that the AI should build more Heavy troops. So than? It should build HI, HC, summon powerful monsters etc. etc.
Why is this so complicated??

Its like saying that people should own more porsches. Specific formulas could be tested for whether it would be workable more situations than it would be stupid. This is getting nuts. Out of all of these "different" people saying this needs done SURELY one of them can come up with a few specifics.

Everything has its pros and cons. Usually the disadvantage of having hvy units is that you dont get very many of them compared to lighter units. Building too many, too soon, and definetly thinking that ALL the AIs should do it would not be a good idea. (and Im suspecting its one that the Devs have already come up against). But I agree that all lighter units is not a good idea. I dont think thats whats being done except in the early game when gold/resources are limited.

And the devs have ASKED for specifics. Id say that unless we try to work this further we can probably consider the matter dropped.

SO what AI? What units? What percentages? Lets test the Groups on the "battle simulator" (mini.map) and pin this down.

[licker]

Heh, this is exactly why I hoped that the army compositions could be externalized, much easier (and quicker) to test that way

For my part I'm not giving suggestions as to what the best composition is because I don't know what it is, I'm too new to the game to provide meaningful commentary on this issue. I was hoping that the Gandalfs and other vets would provide the army compositions that they find succesful in their games, and use that as a starting point...

Anyway, the issue is more complicated than just 'whats the best army composition' as you have to be able to take into consideration the factors in game that control that. The income, resources, gems, available mages (and magic for the '?' mages) are all controling factors in what the 'best' army compostion will be. Also certain balance or bug issues may be negatively impacting the AIs army compostions, issues with building forts and labs come foremost to mind.

So it may be too eary to start tweeking the AI, the balance and bugs need to be resolved first. But it's not too early to provide specifics as to what an ideal army compostion should be (scale it for turn#, or gem income, or whatever if you can). Once other issues have been sorted out, we'll be that much further along to getting a more robust AI (if it's needed that is )

I'll try a specific if you like...

C'tis (non Tomb theme)
20% LI (for the javalins)
40% Falchioneers or Elite Warriors (or both)
20% Swamp Gaurds
10% Longdead + Skeletons
10% Other (poison slingers, Serpents, Dancers)

The other is somewhat based on effectiveness of blessing and availability of Undead to use with the slingers.

The % of SG should drop as more and better Undead become available. If gem income and mages allow the % of Falchioneers and EWs should drop to allow for more death/nature (ideally poison immune) summons. The % of Slingers can increase as more poison immune units are created.

Comanders...

One LK per army mininum. As the army fills out one Shaman and one Commander or Lord to help ferry units. Undead can be led by MMs or Sauromancers, or summoned (Banes or Mound kings early). Add more mages as they become available to summon more hoards of undead.

Well there you have a stab at some concrete numbers

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by licker:
I'll try a specific if you like...

C'tis (non Tomb theme)
20% LI (for the javalins)
40% Falchioneers or Elite Warriors (or both)
20% Swamp Gaurds
10% Longdead + Skeletons
10% Other (poison slingers, Serpents, Dancers)

OK that looks good. So this is what you feel would provice you a challenge to go up against?

Do you see this as an army you would meet at their castle? Or that it would show up coming at you? Since its all home units I take it that this is something for early in the game.

How large an army do you see this as being? This is an ongoing build order? When these max do you see them walking out and starting another one?

I take it for granted that this is supposed to be built in this configuration right from the start? Not cheap units first then fill in later with others (I think thats whats going on now)

So I brought up my Ctis game and bought 2 LI, 2 Falconeers and 2 Elite Guards, I didnt see swamp guards but I may have the wrong theme, and I bought 1 slinger. That worked. I ran low on resources long before money but that would allow me to buy some nice expensive mages to keep up on the need for the undead units.

It didnt look like very many troops though. Many cheap troops are usually what I would start with to get a cheap efficient patrol force. Maybe for a walking army. If I use the battle simulator map I could put in 20, 40, 10, 10 of all those troop types and test them in battle.