Iron Faith Ulm

ywl · #1 December 22nd, 2003, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aldin:
Zen,

ywl,

May as well do drain 3. You HAVE to do drain 1 to access IF. Since your mages are gonna be stuck at 1 research regardless, take the 3 and the points.

~Aldin

3 research points at Drain 1 and 1 research point at drain 3 is a big difference... For Ulm, you can easily have 10+ Black Priests, which will be 30+ points versus 10+ points - though, if you're lucky, you could find fire or death gems to forge research item early enough. But to me, that's not a very safe bet.

SurvivalistMerc · #2 December 22nd, 2003, 11:14 PM

I have always found death sites to be plentiful, even more so if I have at least 3 picks in death. And there are a number of other sphere sites that generate death gems also.

I find that if I take both air and death on a rainbow type mage then I can safely go to drain 3 with ulm IF. Because you will get random air magi capable of making owl quills. And I think you are certain to get one or the other of death or air gems early in the game. (There have been games where I didn't get air early on but never where I didn't get death.)

Construction 6 takes a very long time to reach with just your pretender doing the research. Those lanterns are nice...but they aren't much help early on as they are construction-6.

I have had success with drain 3 every time except my initial experiment when I didn't know what I was doing. The way I look at it...the extra points from the drain scale paid for my RB mage's death and air picks, which more than makes up for it.

If Stone Idols weren't high construction, I suppose you could use them in your research province (secondary castle) early on.

PDF · #3 December 22nd, 2003, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ywl:

quote:
Originally posted by PDF:
Ywl, some thoughts about yours

2/ I disagree on this one : as I've said I'm playing Ulm currently in MP with a RB, and did expand at the same rate than others- except one nasty Abysian SC (and played by Pocus !)
The standard Ulmish troops, with some Guardians for morale, some extra-ulmish archers, a merc band and a couple mages are enough.

I have the suspicion that you're not play with very aggressive players . Well, I don't know unless I can see your game. Let's use a benchmark - has anybody got 15 province by turn 11 to 12?

Mercenary of course could be big help to Ulm's expansion but you don't always get the good ones.

As for the benchmark, we are under that - less than 10 provinces each - but the map only has some 56 provinces for 7 players, so ...

And I admit I was dreaming about IF magic scale - indeed Drain-1 is a req... this should kill the theme

ywl · #4 December 23rd, 2003, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PDF:

quote:
Originally posted by ywl:

quote:
Originally posted by PDF:
Ywl, some thoughts about yours

2/ I disagree on this one : as I've said I'm playing Ulm currently in MP with a RB, and did expand at the same rate than others- except one nasty Abysian SC (and played by Pocus !)
The standard Ulmish troops, with some Guardians for morale, some extra-ulmish archers, a merc band and a couple mages are enough.

I have the suspicion that you're not play with very aggressive players . Well, I don't know unless I can see your game. Let's use a benchmark - has anybody got 15 province by turn 11 to 12?

Mercenary of course could be big help to Ulm's expansion but you don't always get the good ones.
As for the benchmark, we are under that - less than 10 provinces each - but the map only has some 56 provinces for 7 players, so ...

And I admit I was dreaming about IF magic scale - indeed Drain-1 is a req... this should kill the theme

It's a very crowded map.

I don't have much experience. But I guess, if you got a bunch of cautious players, rainbow mage could be fine since you can fully utilize the gem income of each province.

Otherwise with such crowdiness, you should have total war by turn 15 already... You'll be in an very disadvantageous position without a combat pretender.

Keir Maxwell · #5 December 23rd, 2003, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PvK:
My (newb-ish) reasons for choosing level 4 have been:

1) Because I heard that site searching required up to 4. I haven't seen the master list of sites, but it sounds like you're saying the level-4 ones are less worthwhile than the ones that are combos of levels 1-3.

Heaps of level 1-2 is how it worked in Dom1 with a decent number of 3 and very few 4. As the number of sites drops off as you go up and it costs more for each higher level the return drops off seriously after level 2 and cost is a huge issue with RM's. There is a list for dom1 sites at:
http://www.freewebz.com/sunraybe/
This will give you an idea of the spread but we will need an up to dat list to have a better idea of what paths look attractive to take 3 in just for site searching.

Quote:

2) To get level-4 bless effects. I actually think 2 or 3 level-4 bless effects look better than many of the level-9 bless effects. (e.g., I'd rather have templars blessed by Attack +2 and Defense +2, than have one of 75% Shock Resist, Twist Fate, 50% anti-poison, or Death Curse)..

. . . +4prot, flaming weapons, 50% quickness, regeneration - these being the good level 9 bless effects. I do agree that +2 def, att, str, reinv, berserk, are all very appealling I'm just unsure that going for both a bless effects pretender and a rainbow mage in one is viable.

Perhaps terms are part of what has confused me in understanding the role of level 4 magic on a rainbow mage. For me a rainbow mage has level 3 in as many things as you can afford/need and 2 in the rest which allows them to master all the paths of magic. What do I mean by master? Varies a bit from path to path but probably getting to level 5-7 would qualify. Above thats getting into grand mastery. Why does this versitility matter? Because a rainbow has all the colours and a rainbow mage has an answer for every situation - if only they can get the timing right.

A mage with 4 levels of magic at 4 is, to me, a bless effects pretender with powerful site searchering. If you choose the paths so as to be able to craft the right items they can grow alot in power. However without massive empowerment they will struggle to raise their levels as easily as a rainbow mages and few items confer magic levels when you have none in that path. You also won't generally be picking the rights paths as you are choosing paths for bless effects not choosing astral so can build the astral whoopers so important to a rainbow mage. If you picked Air4 Blood4 you could build the Robe of the Magi though which is pretty spectacular and +2 str and a weak air shield is not bad. Hmmm - Mictlan?

Quote:

3) So the pretender will be a fairly good mage in these areas, rather than something I could get pretty easily with a mortal mage plus an item or empowerment.

By studying the items you should find that you don't need to start at 4 to be able to get beyond what a normal mage could get due to the items/spells you can build/cast if you have certain combinations of paths. Once you build up to Staff of Elemental mastery, Robe of the Magi and of course the astral whoppers ring of wizardy and ring of sourcery you have a handy +3 to all your paths. Then there is all the other magical boosters and unique items.

Might need to start with blood3 for the Robe of the Magi with a non blood race using a rainbow mage as I don't think there is a blood 2 booster you can make.

Cheers

Keir

[ December 23, 2003, 01:05: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]