Possible bug?

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
A vastness can take out most armies I've seen...

They're "only" good for chomping armies of about 20-30 normal troops (non-Jots). Solo, that is. They are much more effective if given a little support. I use mine, without support, to wreak havoc in the AI's rear areas.

Alternately, if every vastness alive decreased the vastness summoning chances (1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, ...) that would work just as well.

That would be okay. It's reasonable and doesn't sound disbalancing.

If high summoning skill let you mass vastnessess... Rlyeh would generally win at around turn 50, if it could simply survive that long, without even expanding. And was lucky.

A bit of an exaggeration. At least if you play as I do on large maps like Orania, and with indies set to 7+. On smaller maps and/or with normal (ie: weak) indies, yes, I can see how Vastnesses can rule.

Of course, depending on the Victory Conditions it could/couldnot be as exploitive. Especially if you are playing on a larger map, because it gives the R'lyeh more time. A Vastness can take out most anything, including magical attacks (like Ashen Angels and Earth Attacks) and with a movement of 10, they can just jump with impunity wherever they want and you can't touch them.

There is a limit to things like Demon Lords (or is supposed to be, I've been able to get multiples, but I'm sure this is a bug), why not Vastnesses?

Perfectly acceptable considering they can get them any turn after 15+ or switch in and out summoners in order to try to 'maximize' the Vastness summoning.

Edit: A properly used Vastness can take out 80-100 Troops without much danger to themselves. But, as it's been said before, it's all in the equipment. Blood Vengance is a killer.

[ January 23, 2004, 07:35: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Zen:
Edit: A properly equipped Vastness

Eh? My Vastness has only a slot for gems. They'd be really abusive if they had equipment slots too.

Must be a Doom Horror. My mistake.

I just tested the Vastness. He is more than capable of taking out 50-60 Hardened Troops. And still takes out all the Manifestations, Earth Attacks, he did die to a Pale Riders though. But I think it was just the sheer number of lances and being undead.

I'd hope a Level 9 Spell would take him out before he can jump to another province.

[void]

Teleport and Magic duel AFAIK. It's a simple combo to drive a vastness out. Poor vastness is a S3 mage, It should be the biggest weakness.
Teleport + Paralyze + Soul slay or something like as well, it's fine when you give the mage a Rune Smasher / Spell Focus. It's a practically way to slain a SC...
and,whats the most important is, all this can be done in magic phase, BEFORE he can jump to another province...

Well,I want a Evo/Thu9 commander smasher spell "Power word: Kill" too ^^

[ January 23, 2004, 09:02: Message edited by: void ]

Defenders have first movement. So when you teleport to a province the Vastness is in, he gets to cast first. Guess what spell should be every Vastness's first?

I don't want to give it away, but it starts with a P and ends with an E. Since each battle is seperate, the defender will always get to go first and disable opponent SC's that don't have over 28+ MR.

[void]

Originally posted by Zen:
Defenders have first movement. So when you teleport to a province the Vastness is in, he gets to cast first. Guess what spell should be every Vastness's first?

right,right
but...that's easy to solve i think ^^
just have some mages teleport at the same time...

Vastness: P Mage1
Mage1: Idling..
Mage2: Duel..fail
Mage3: Duel...Wow,done^^

[ January 23, 2004, 12:39: Message edited by: void ]