Proposed Modding Cost Guidelines

[Arryn]

With respect, if you're going to go against the majority opinion regarding the value of Sacred (and it's "Sacred", not "Holy", "Holy" is a special magic path), then I think you're going to have to explain/justify why you think it's only worth 33% rather than 50% (which is what IW, myself, and many others feel is about right; some people feel even 60-75% is justified for some units). Simply saying it's too much isn't helpful. (Personally, I think a Jotun Woodsman at 50g is too expensive, as are Nifel giants, but obviously IW thinks they aren't.) So if you're going to change things, it's incumbent on you to explain in greater detail why you think they should be changed.

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Arryn,

Thanks. Sacred, not Holy. Sigh. Lots of problems with it, and I appreciate you pointing them out. No sarcasm intended.

I noted that it was my opinion, and that the official word was 50%. How about I reverse it? I will note the cost as 50%, but IMHO it should be 35%. I think that is how I will handle any unofficial vs. official discrepancies.

In any case, the whole thing should be taken with a grain of salt. It is unofficial, and merely guidelines. Albeit, what everyone has done so far seems pretty accurate!

One thing I might do if I have time is make a smaller guidebook with less complicated rules. It might be less accurate, but it would be easier for beginners to pick up modding from.

[Arryn]

BTW, someone a while back (Zen or Cherry?) pointed out that some skills are worth far more than others. MR and morale are worth a LOT more than strength or attack. Protection is worth more than defense. I see that the list still has the same cost for all skills. This really should be adjusted in the manner that was suggested by whomever originally pointed it out.

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Arryn, I'd love to see some debate about it. Two people opined that ST and ATT were not very important, but Def definitely was. Other characteristics were mentioned as well. I am unsure if that is true.

E.g. 1 on 1 attack, Def and Arm are both just about as important. 2 on 1, Def becomes less important as it is less effective; in this case, armor would be more important than defense skill. 3 on 1, Def becomes even less effective, while I believe armor still works against all attackers.

This makes me think Att and Def are just as important, and Armor is more important, so should cost more.

Someone suggested that natural protection should be more expensive than artificial protection. I am unsure if they meant this in a game-balance way, or as in it is hard to have natural armor equivalent to plate armor--very hard. So it should cost more.

I would love for people to kick these ideas around, provide examples, etc. We'd all learn from it, and I will add it in as it makes sense to me.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Uh-Nu-Buh:
This makes me think Att and Def are just as important, and Armor is more important, so should cost more.

Armor has no gold cost, it has resource costs. Defense is more important than attack because there are very few units with high defense, and therefore a unit that can't be hit doesn't need attack to hit most other units. The defense reduction for multiple attacks isn't likely to be more than 3-6 unless the unit is surrounded, as not every attack on the square will hit the unit.

Someone suggested that natural protection should be more expensive than artificial protection. I am unsure if they meant this in a game-balance way, or as in it is hard to have natural armor equivalent to plate armor--very hard. So it should cost more.

Natural protection is part of the body of the unit, so it raises gold costs. I would say that your fear costs are still too low. I would think that gaining a fear+0 aura would cost around 30-40 gold, and every point beyond that would start at about 10 gold per point. Fear is extremely powerful if you give it any kind of area of effect, and multiple units with moderate level fear will rout enemies very easily. Witness how quickly squads rout from small Groups of death-9 blessed Knights of the Unholy Sepulchre.

[Wauthan]

After a brief comparison between similar units found in the different nations I think one can safely assume that there is no built in formula in unit cost.

Take a look at the various priest units of the human factions. Stats are readily comparable but costs don't follow a logical pattern. I assume that Illwinter considered more factors then just stats and abilities. Making a detailed guide seems to be a very difficult task. I could not come up with a cost for "Heal" when I tried using the current formula on the Arcosephale Priestess.

I can only hope that one of the Illwinter team finds the time to comment on this thread since they surely had some kind of plan when they created units. Most units got nice round costs in gold indicating an estimated value rather than a formula though.

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Good point. I think a smaller, easier to use, less accurate, in-the-ballpark, guidebook would be better for most people. With a lot of general advice. A section on game-balance. Another section on thematic unity. And a couple of good examples.

Looking back over what has been done before, it all looks too difficult for most people to use. Simpler, cleaner, more general....