Vampire Queens and Sneaking Armies

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
So why is it no more expensive than a mage chassis like the lich? It should be at least 150 points, as it is considerably more powerful than a titan for example.

Because a VQ does not start with a L3 path like the Lich? As for the Titan, the VQ may be more powerful in combat, but the Titan has dominion 3 and a L3 path to start with (apart from the nifty hps) making for an easier strong bless effect and high dominion, should you so desire. Different strengths for different gods.

EDIT: This should not be understood as if I am against a general increase in the price of the VQ, to the contrary, I am for a price hike. It only addresses the specific questions asked.

[ April 14, 2004, 02:26: Message edited by: Peter Ebbesen ]

I believe the statement and I personally agree that the VQ is built for abuse both as a SC and as a Domain powerful unit, getting not only Free Vampires (Which can provide a sizable defense within your own domain) as well as an immortality for having a high dominion. If you look at any other Pretender they only have 1 of those 2 abuses. Either A.) Immortality or B.) Free Troops. Only the Vampire Queen, Son of Niefel and Ghost King get a usable troop type that doesn't purely rely on the Pretender to use them in combat (though your preference may be to only have them with your VQ or GK). Moloch's Imps, Daughter of the Land's Lions, Father of Serpents 'Free Units' are not dominion based but are also essentially as much a handicap as much as a benefit as it disallows versitility.

The only other Immortal Pretenders are the Bog Mummy and Phoenix. Only 1 of the 2 have decent slots and that one has subpar stats (as when you are looking at Immortality for a SC, you have to look at "out of the box" stats, slots, and abilities, which you can tell which is clearly superior).

I see no reason why the Lord of the Night costs 150, while the VQ costs 110. It at the very least should be moved up to 125 with other "Combat" pretenders and hopefully more limited nation selection.

Of course, that is my opinion based on the fact I'm tired of seeing newbs and veterans alike carbon copy pretenders instead of utilizing the variety that is found in the game. But of course I also don't think Clam Hoarding is a big deal, so my view is more than likely off.

[ April 14, 2004, 02:10: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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Originally posted by Norfleet:
If ANYTHING has Soul Vortex and Phoenix Pyre, it has essentially unlimited resurrections against normal riffraff. You hardly need a VQ for that.

190 points for the VQ, the next cheapest is the PoD, which is hardly as effective.

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The cheapest would be the Michtlan Smoking Mirror at 102 points I think.... But perhaps he is a bit too feeble.

Of other interesting combinations, a Phoenix Pyring Soul Vortexing Lord of the Gates would cost 140 points, a Nataraja 156 points, a Golden Naga 160 points, a Red Dragon 170 points, heck, even making Odin the All-Father able to use that combination can be done for 195 points.

There are lots and lots of good pretender chassis that can use Soul Vortex and Phoenix Pyre if that is what you want, and quite a few of them cheaper than the Vampire Queen.

[AhhhFresh]

Well, why not take away the etherealness like Tawqus suggested... I don't think I'm familiar with any literature that says that Vamps are innately ethereal like ghosts and specters and what not...

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
There are lots and lots of good pretender chassis that can use Soul Vortex and Phoenix Pyre if that is what you want, and quite a few of them cheaper than the Vampire Queen.

Sure, but every time they get hit they risk permanent afflictions. If they are being hit hard enough to die then they will likely gain them quite quickly.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Zen:

The only other Immortal Pretenders are the Bog Mummy and Phoenix. Only 1 of the 2 have decent slots and that one has subpar stats (as when you are looking at Immortality for a SC, you have to look at "out of the box" stats, slots, and abilities, which you can tell which is clearly superior).

And the Lich, the Master Lich, and the Lich Queen, but yes, immortality is a very rare ability and ought to be priced accordingly.

I would be happy to see the high and mighty VQ get her just desserts and be bumped to 125 or preferably 150 points due to the sheer mass of useful abilities she has been granted, including many of the most precious ones found in the game.


Ps: Am I the only one who prefers using the Lich Queen as Ermor rather than a Vampire Queen? It just seems so much more fitting - and you can start with dominion 9 or 10 to go with your insane levels of magic

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
Ps: Am I the only one who prefers using the Lich Queen as Ermor rather than a Vampire Queen? It just seems so much more fitting - and you can start with dominion 9 or 10 to go with your insane levels of magic

I tend to prefer the Lich Queen when playing living Ermor, as it's nice for your communion slaves to be reborn when the masters drain them, and she's not much more expensive than the PoD for a level 9 blessing. Of course, I also really like having a pretender with earth and water magic for death nations, as jade armor is extremely useful for bane lords.