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[Gandalf Parker]

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THANKS for the great comments.

Originally posted by PvK:
Room for improvement would be if you can limit it so that random forts don't appear in the wrong type for their terrain (land forts underwater), and it might be a good idea not to overwrite the nation's capital fort, though I guess that might be ok.

Im getting capable of that now. I had to relearn "bit math" to translate that terrain command. I guess I could do it now since castles would be a fairly small table. I was thinking mostly of the units. You might not have seen it but in the first round of the game (did it seem to think a really long time) many units drowned. Water units on land, and land units in water. But then thats also why some of the provinces seemed to have no special troops, maybe thats a "feature" instead of a bug.

My Man started out with something that looks and acts like an Emorian citadel, but has no name.

Is that an old download? I thought I fixed that. It was much worse. I had started some games where I didnt even own my starting province. I would be under seige right away, or sometimes I was the seiger of someone elses castle. That was a strange game, starting right away with someone elses gem income instea of mine.

A variant of Poke where the changes weren't entirely random, could be good, too. Something with random placement and specifics, but with more controlled and perhaps thematic units and items instead of pure random.

I had a concept for a Semi-Random game but no one showed an interest in helping.
http://www.dom2minions.com/SemiRandom.shtml

"Dragon Sprinkle", for example. Or how about "After the Vampire Wars" (All the provinces start out with bunches of extra priests, friars, Just Man's Crosses, Herald Lances, enchanted swords, Flambeaux, Angels, lifeless constructs... remainders of a need for everyone do develop anti-vampire equipment.

Sounds like Leif's random generator would be good for that. He has one that uses theme files to set alot of variables.

[ May 07, 2004, 20:44: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[PvK]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
... You might not have seen it but in the first round of the game (did it seem to think a really long time) many units drowned. Water units on land, and land units in water. But then thats also why some of the provinces seemed to have no special troops, maybe thats a "feature" instead of a bug.

I did notice that. I started out with an acquatic commander, which is how I started with a Sceptre of Authority, which I stole from him immediately, and game in handy against the Soul Gate forces later. I started out in a costal province and ordered him to sea on turn one, but IIRC although he took the order, he didn't make it even to go die against the independent forces there.

Still, I think it's actually a feature as you said, even if it is weird.

... Is that an old download? I thought I fixed that. It was much worse. I had started some games where I didnt even own my starting province. I would be under seige right away, or sometimes I was the seiger of someone elses castle. That was a strange game, starting right away with someone elses gem income instea of mine.

It was 2-4 months old. I think I have the right gem income for Man (air, nature, whatever...) but a funky unnamed death castle. Maybe my castle was stomped by a random castle, but it wouldn't always happen?

I had a concept for a Semi-Random game but no one showed an interest in helping.
http://www.dom2minions.com/SemiRandom.shtml

Ya that's exactly what I had in mind. What kind of help were you looking for?

... Sounds like Leif's random generator would be good for that. He has one that uses theme files to set alot of variables.

Again, sounds like the same sort of thing. Now, if I just had a pile of free time...

PvK

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by PvK:
Ya that's exactly what I had in mind. What kind of help were you looking for?

Well I keep starting it and going nowhere. I started going thru all the monsters and grouping them into lots of categories. Mountains, water, plains, dragons, flyers, undead, devils. Doing that started the creative juices going for special provinces. I never did finish that part, nor did I get into the sites, populations, castles, and equipment.

The actual code for it wouldnt be hard but some kindof sorting system needs to be decided on. Once a few get started I was thinking of using it as a "starting point" for new mappers. Getting them interested in using the map commands to fuly design just one province at a time and adding it to the pile for random placements.

[PvK]

Ok. Perhaps it could start with a list of the things that are found on most maps - the flags like terrain types, large, magic rich, etc. Each special would have a set of those as a prerequisite, and a rarity or commonness factor.

The program could take two input files:

* One input file would be the map file from a typical non-special map. This would allow any map file to be embellished with semi-randoms. Ideally, any provinces already given special items would not be modified.

* The other input file would be a list of special types of site with any special names, starting units, or sites to add. This would allow different files to be generated for different kinds of effects.

The output file would be a map file with a different name from the original.

I don't know if writing this is helpful, or if you had already figured out a (possibly different) scheme. Just trying to help.

PvK

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually it can get alittle more specific than that. A program could read in the map and figure the terrains for each providence. Then it could read in all the neighbor lines. Now it should be possible to find a province which is Mountain or Swamp, and one which is an Island (surrounded by water neighbors), or a lake (water surrounded by land), or a shoreline province, or maybe even decent chokepoints on the map.

Im picturing seperate province files that can be randomly selected and inserted into the .map such as
#land XX
#landname "there be DRAGONS HERE"
#poptype XX (trolls)
#magicsite "something appropriate here"
#magicsite "something appropriate here"
#magicsite "something appropriate here"
#commander "Carrion Dragon"
#equip "anti-magic amulet"
#bodygrd 10 "Iron Dragon"
#units 20 "Dragon Men"
#commander "Red Dragon"
#units 20 "fire drake"
etc etc etc

If there was a decent way of marking the province files. Such as "Dragons Lair" being for mountains, and the "BoogeyMan Bog" being for swamp, the "Crystal Spires" for an island. That way the program can randomly select from the many (hopefully a ton of player offered) province files, then try to find an approprite location for it and insert it there. If we get up to having a hundred files, and I randomly insert 10-20 in each of the daily random generated games then it seems like it could be a worthwhile project.

[nakomus]

Gandalf,
I normally lurk on this forum, but I wanted to stick my head in to say I *really* appreciate your set of nation specific random opponents maps. Being able to download a map and jump right into an interesting game with whatever nation I wanted to play is great.

Poke in the Eye appeals less to me because it is so clearly different from MP games. The random opponent maps I can see as sort of practice in dealing with unexpected situations that might actually arise in a normal game. Poke in the Eye creates obviously impossible initial conditions.

That being said, I also enjoyed Orania Nasty Edition and think the semi-random map idea sounds wonderful; which I guess contradicts my complaint about impossible initial conditions in Poke in the Eye.

I have some experience programming in Python and made a brief attempt to code an automatic map modifier to play with, but I ran into trouble based on not really understanding the rules of map commands.

I’d be interested in contributing to an attempt at a semi random map generator if I were not so busy with school. As it stands now I don’t really have time to play Dominions in the first place.

[Wauthan]

I really liked the idea behind the "Poke in the Eye" map. I just don't like the map itself that much.

But if you ever need help with creating "province theme parks" you can sign me right up. I've done a few scenarios based on a similar idea with themed provinces. Just decide upon a suitable format and we could start a thread on the subject.

[ May 08, 2004, 08:37: Message edited by: Wauthan ]