Is the REAL problem with VQs...Norfleet?

[Jondifool]

Now that was a good reply Norfolk. ( must say I don't like the title of this topic)

if I understands you correct
The Vampire Queens "power" lays in the easyness she is turned into a cockie cutter pretender!

you could be right ( i am not experienced enough to say). But I still see a problem with her then.

She is to much of a challange for a newbie to counter! (though some answers finally does shows up).

this Cockie cutter might be unavoidble, but certainly not fortunate! The Vampire Queen is a newbie basher. And as a newbie I am ready to take my beatings and learn this game, but I don't look forward to get beaten by a cookie cutter!

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Slygar:
Just gotta say it: This whole arguement seems so ridiculous. I mean, why would we need to submit success data to determine if the VQ is actually overpowered? I mean, just look at it, and compare it to any other same-priced pretender. Even ones that cost more dont compare (father of serpents, for example.) And you can't forget the free vampires, which is one of my favorite things about the VQ when I play it (I find them very useful as a rearstrike force, once there are 20+ of them.. especially against AI. Ethereal + Immortal = fun)

I saw it right away, my first game of Dom ii was Abysia with a VQ. I can't imagine that there are people that actually think it is balanced, although fun to play, I admit.

But why does a Super Combat god have to be nerfed? This isnt Immortal Kombat. Does that mean that the super rainbow is next? or the best god for harassment? support? defense?

No one is doubting that she is high in the combat god Category but will lowering her help? And we seem to still be seeing more agreement on her faults then suggestions on what to do. What changes wont put the Ghost King next on the list? As a combat god you cant make her equal to Wyrm or Nataraja

[Kel]

The sad part is the players don't even agree on what 'over-powered' means.

Some people think over-powered means she is above the power average.

Some people think that if she isn't invincible, she isn't over-powered.

No-one wants to use each others language so everyone goes in circles, repeating themselves. Perhaps people need to agree on definitions before they do anything.

- Kel

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Jondifool:
if I understands you correct
The Vampire Queens "power" lays in the easyness she is turned into a cockie cutter pretender!

Not merely a "cookie cutter pretender", but the ease with which she can be built into a number of SCs. Is this a BAD thing, though? After all, the VQ is useful really, for just that one thing. Her innate magics are not conducive towards any kind of a bless effect that is of much use: neither the death nor blood blessings are of much use in general, and focussing on either death or blood will more or less gut her ability as an SC. Trying to turn her into a truly potent SC is so expensive in points, that even playing strong dominion with scales is really not a sound plan with her. If you it half-assed, the VQ isn't really an impressive fighter at all.

So you can turn the VQ into one really useful thing only: A squasher of regular armies (and newbies). Of course, the ability to squash newbies is a meaningless trick: Newbies, are, by definition, bad at the game, and trying to balance the game for people who are BAD at it, rather than concentrating on what SKILLED play looks like, is a recipe for a boring game with no depth.

So in the end, at great cost in nation points, the VQ can be turned into a single, highly potent SC, that is not, by any means, even close to unstoppable, as a wide variety of easily available countermeasures exist. Is that really such a problem?

[Gandalf Parker]

I played a game with some new players and I used the Lord of the Hunt with Carrion Woods Pangaea. I used the LH to walk all over their territorys dropping maenads. It wrecked havok with their plans for quite awhile until they sunk enough into defense in every province to stop the maenad attacks. By then I had Black Heart and turned him into a godly assassin so they had to crank the defense to over 20 in every province to try and catch me sneaking. By then the carrion army ruled the world.

I dont want to see Lord of the Hunt be the next target.

[Norfleet]

Hey, that's pretty funny. I like that. Neat trick. Of course, the advantage the Lord of the Wild has is that he's Pangaea-only, so people can't try to port the strategy to other nations: As a result, you won't see a deluge of Lord of the Wilds from wannabes.

[rabelais]

Originally posted by Wikd Thots:
Dont back off now Rabi. Gandalf is just an old guy and wishes he can make us use our GOOD manners.

You go ahead and pick anything in the game you want and dont use wimpy words like balanse or opinion or please look at. TELL them that there game is all broke and defektiv messed up (not the word I wanted but I changed it 3 times till I got one I thot might stay). Those 2 guys in the garage after work should change what PLAYERS say is broke and stop doing just what they want to do

I missed my plane

Um, did you *read* my post? I haven't seen your name before.

My manners are fine, thank you.

I haven't demanded anything of anyone.

I've expressed an opinion, and then, having been chastised, I expressed an opinion about others opinion about the opinion... etc (pant, pant, pant... )

I have he greatest respect for Gandalf, the mods generally, and certainly the devs. If there's somewhere that isn't readily apparent in my scribbling, ... please show me where I misrepresented the care and affection I have for this forum.

If anyone is getting attacked here, (which I doubt) it's arguably me. Is it just the grotesque effrontery of having thought about the game, tried to express those thoughts clearly on a point of ongoing controversy, and expecting people to respond constructively in an open forum about said game?

To quote the Funniest White Man in America (Circa 1978)

Well Excuuuuuuuuuuuuse Me!


Rabe the Non-Airborne.

[ May 07, 2004, 02:51: Message edited by: rabelais ]