SuperVans!

Stormbinder · #1 May 17th, 2004, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

But even in moderation.... Take -3cold, -3luck and -3magic. Not bad if you dont plan to fight at home. Could even be defensive. That can get you 9/9/6 or 9/9/4/2 or 9/9/2/2/2/2 if you want to put her to work doing alittle searching. Alot will give you 9fire/9water like Ghost King or Manticore. Moloch will give you 9 fire, 9 water, and 5 somewhere else. Either the red or blue dragon will give 9fire/9water/4something. Throw in -1death and AllFather can give you 9fire/9water beside the 2 magics he starts off with. Also -1death will let the infamous VQ give 9fire/9water. With Phoenix you can even take back a scale point.

Hmm interesting picture Gandelf.

I am playing Vans right now in my MP game, with Odin and 9 water blessing. I have water 9 air 3 death 3; order 3 sloth 3 cold 1 misfortune 3.

-3 magic for Vanheim? Ouch. IMHO their reseach sucks even with neutral scales, with -3 magic it would be virtually not existant. Sure, you'll be realying on rush and national units, but you have to have _some_ reseach.

IMHO sloth 3 would be significatly better than -3 magic in your picture, since production of Vans doesn't take many resourses anyway.

Also 3 Cold is kindof nasty (instead of 1 cold default) - vans armies require a lot gold to recruit and maintain, and -3 cold means -10% gold income, in addition to hurting not cold-resistant troops during the battle.

Since the supply for vans is not a problem (pigs) perhaps it would be better to take -2 Cold -2 Death instead of -3 Cold -1 Death?

On the other hand having 9 fire 9 water perhaps could put Vans troops on pair with best summoned troops. Just thinking about all these Vans and valkyeres, with 9 water quickness and protection and 9 fire blessing can put a smile on the face...

And you still have very good flying SC with such setup. So do you think it would be worth it in MP game or is it too extreme?

[ May 17, 2004, 00:35: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

PvK · #2 May 17th, 2004, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
...
BTW I've heard that any "flaming weapon" enchnatment (fire 9 blessing, flaming arrows, etc.) work as additional 8 AP damage weapon, so you can have up to 2 hits with every swing of your weapon. Is it indeed so?

Well it is an 8 damage effect when you have flaming weapons from blessings, but I don't know exactly how that applies with regards to number of attacks, number of targets, effects of armor, etc.

Speaking of Vans, I saw one (unequipped non-prophet Vanherse) in a deathmatch with an unequipped Vampire Queen yesterday. The Van only lost by retreating first. I think it could have gone either way. The (uninjured) VQ was then defeated during the next round in one turn by the imps of a Moloch... bye bye VQ.

PvK

[ May 17, 2004, 00:49: Message edited by: PvK ]

Gandalf Parker · #3 May 17th, 2004, 02:04 AM

I think going for maximum bless is a good strategy in a game where no one is expecting anything extreme. Play with the scales but the idea is that you are going to put all your reliance in blessed troops. The fact that Van can move them on someone as a total surprise would be interesting also.

If you take low dominion you should be able to operate outside of your scale effects. Especially with the checkerboard capability of Van. Even if your scales lowers your money, magic, fighting ability; you might be able to work around that. Fight outside your dominion area. Take a high-population province and tax it high but dont let your dominion climb there. Take a province for sages and use it for research.

This strategy is probably best used as a "secret weapon" for when you are playing people who think they know you and how you play.

Gandalf Parker
--
If you cant beat 'em, join 'em.
If you cant beat em or join em,
then at least try to surprise them.

Huzurdaddi · #4 May 17th, 2004, 03:02 AM

Quote:

On the other hand having 9 fire 9 water perhaps could put Vans troops on pair with best summoned troops. Just thinking about all these Vans and valkyeres, with 9 water quickness and protection and 9 fire blessing can put a smile on the face... And you still have very good flying SC with such setup. So do you think it would be worth it in MP game or is it too extreme?

Well worth it. Give it a whirl.

Hard on the scales? Sure is. You are going to have to choose between drain 3 and misfortune 3 ( imo ). If you take drain 3 pretty much forget magic ( which is a shame, you have blood magic ... *sniff* ) but since the van is going to be *so* good, imo, it's worth it. Oh and sloth 3 is basically a requirement.

Area effect spells own them I would guess. But against any type of normal or semi-normal troop they will stomp.

Gandalf Parker · #5 May 17th, 2004, 03:08 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:

Quote:

Hard on the scales? Sure is. You are going to have to choose between drain 3 and misfortune 3 ( imo ). If you take drain 3 pretty much forget magic ( which is a shame, you have blood magic ... *sniff* )

But if you take the crone her dominion is 1?
If its a larger map then it should be hard to build a lab in a sage province and have normal research there.

HotNifeThruButr · #6 May 17th, 2004, 03:08 AM

Nice PvK, and if memories serves me correctly, the Arena has no dominion, so the VQ can't be teleported to her home province.

Huzurdaddi · #7 May 17th, 2004, 03:21 AM

Quote:

But if you take the crone her dominion is 1?
If its a larger map then it should be hard to build a lab in a sage province and have normal research there.

That's ... that's insane! But ... I like it! I wonder if it would work. I bought her with a dominion of 5 ( did not check to see if there was a better buy out there ... probably is ).