What am I supposed to do with Shamen?

[tinkthank]

Thanks for all of this.

A follow-up question:

I also got excited about poison slingers and undead synergizing well, but I just fail to be able to get my slingers to work. I fail miserably in every single setup I have tried.
In fact, I get the majority of them killed no matter what, unless I have vastly superior forces, in which case I win (or would win) without them.

It seems that the poison slingers also have a unoverridable urge to run out and attack enemies with their daggers -- at times, at least it seems so to me, when they must have at least 1 shot left (that is, before battle round 7). Why is this?

Where do you put them on the battlefield that they can hit enemies and not kill themselves?

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
Building temples is a Hierodule's job. What does the Keeper do that the red Sauromancer doesn't do better? (You can ask that kind of question about a lot of cheap national mages - but the Shaman has an answer.)

Bless, Preach, and Build Temples. For an answer that is somewhat conducive to discussion, however, I would use the Keepers to summon your Banefire Archers. All they need is a single +Death item (which your Sauromancers are guaranteed able to make). That's a 110g sacred mage (I can only believe the lack of sacred is an oversight) doing a job that would otherwise need a 180g non-sacred mage.

Also, if I have a Keeper building my temples, I don't have to build a Hierodule to build my Temples, since I'm already going to have Keepers for Research purposes anyway.

Please change the Keeper to 1 Fire, 1 Death, 1 Astral. Appropriate and useful (although still probably not as useful as the Shaman - no access to Relief or healing spells, can't forge supply items; but still usable as a communion slave, researcher, forger or site scryer).

I think that would be a singularly bad idea. They already have easy access to Banefire, do you really want them to have Astral Fires as well? And that's not counting Nether Darts, either...

This also ignores the fact that you are advocating to give C'tis a researcher in the top 10 in the game and you give Desert Tombs access to Astral items that really don't belong there.

I mean, how hard is it to find Shamen in independent provinces, anyway?

Although you could argue Desert Tombs needs them less, they don't have less need for Arcane Probing, communion slaves and cheap sacred researchers. If the Keeper's not going to be sacred he could at least be a point better researcher than the Shaman.

Actually, I would argue that yes, indeed, Desert Tombs has less need of communion slaves and Astral magic, due to an unlimited supply of undead troops. There is only _one_ nation in the game that gets Astral Magic, Death Magic, AND Unholy priests, and that's BE Ermor, and it pays a stiff penalty for it.

I really think that the Keeper's nonsacredness is an anomaly. I mean, can anyone name another priest that isn't sacred?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
Building temples is a Hierodule's job. What does the Keeper do that the red Sauromancer doesn't do better?

Cast fire spells with a skull of fire and phoenix power? Also site searching with the same items. Not as generally useful as the Shaman perhaps.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
Building temples is a Hierodule's job. What does the Keeper do that the red Sauromancer doesn't do better?

Cast fire spells with a skull of fire and phoenix power? Also site searching with the same items. Not as generally useful as the Shaman perhaps.

---

Giving them a Skull Staff and having them summon Banefire archers in droves is much more fun!

[Blitz]

Unfortunately all those nice things that you can now do with the keeper were things you could already do with either a heriodule or a saromancer.

Losing all your nature and astral magic sucks. No amulet of MR, no pendant of luck, no magic deul, no arcane probing, no communion (ergo no relief, astral healing, antimagic). He's not better than the shaman.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Blitz:
Losing all your nature and astral magic sucks. No amulet of MR, no pendant of luck, no magic deul, no arcane probing,

You still have all of these ones through the randoms on your sauromancers.

[Blitz]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Blitz:
Losing all your nature and astral magic sucks. No amulet of MR, no pendant of luck, no magic deul, no arcane probing,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You still have all of these ones through the randoms on your sauromancers.

Fine Graeme. But the next time you cast relief with a saromancer, be sure to let me know.