OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by daesthai:
To make what is probably a bad analogy - it's like saying "I'm a baseball player. But I don't like having three bases, so I just play with two and ignore the third one. And I disagree with three strikes being an out, so I'll just have the pitcher keep pitching until the batter get 7 strikes." At that point, you're not playing baseball, you're just playing your own game.

I concur. Isn't the entire point of being a member of said religion that you share that religion's beliefs? Because if you don't, obviously, you're not really a member....unless you somehow just like having the label for whatever benefit you can gain from it, without having to actually be bound by the obligations of said title. I suspect the only real claim some of them have to being "Catholic" is starting out born that way. For instance, I tend to completely disagree with many Catholic views. Thus, I am not a member, and do not claim to be one.

[daesthai]

Thanks Norfleet. You were able to state a bit more concisely the point I was trying to make.

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Arryn:
Since you are such a big supporter of all things Republican, I find it most hypocritical that you should cite the rising national debt, something that has traditionally exploded under Republican administrations (Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr.) that are staunch believers in deficit spending and letting future generations worry about the problems caused by their populist policies of tax breaks (for rich people & corporations) and warmongering.

Have I written anything about supporting Republicans??? NO ! So despite your vast mind reading abilities you are wrong here. I am not supporting either side... just don't want Kerry because he is trying to make huge changes which will give us HIGHER taxes, more government intervention and he is for abortion which goes against my moral beliefs.
None of the presidents have changed the national debt from increasing to decreasing.... when one of them can do this then I'd have enough faith to give him a shot at some national healthcare system which is also a huge financial task/responsibility.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Frosted Flake:
As for Arryn thinking all Republicans thinking alike where did that come from? I am a conservative Republican...I believe in balanced budgets,conserving the environment,preserving our country's (and the world's) freedoms. I want to know how the biblethumping southern democrats took over my party? I also want to know how middle America can back Bush after Iraq. Bush,Cheney,Rumsfield and the idiots who authorized torture in iraq have sullied the honor of the world's finest milatary..in the name of expediency.

According to the current political scheme of things, you're a "moderate" Republican. IOW, you're a rational, thinking person, unlike the mainstream mindless drones in your party. As for how your party was hijacked, you must ask yourself what people of like-minded values such as yourself were doing since 1994 and Newt Gingrich's hostile takeover of the Congress, or during the election campaign of 2000? We'd be a helluva lot better off if McCain had won the primary battle back then. Instead of having to face a choice between Bush and Kerry now.

[djtool]

fogive me for not quoting you vigabrand.


I can't believe you would insinuate that a man not pushing his own personal values upon the country is a bad thing. I don't know kerry personally, but i do know that the president is not an elected king. It is not the presidents job to impose his values upon americans, but to manage comprimise with them.

[djtool]

[/quote]We'd be a helluva lot better off if McCain had won the primary battle back then. Instead of having to face a choice between Bush and Kerry now.[quote]

I can't say I disagree.

The whole party thing is a real mess though. Its a shame we have to choose between to Groups of people who, by the nature of their organizations, have to put the american people third on their list of priorities...if that.

(yes i realize I don't have to vote rep or dem i'm sure you get the picture)

[ July 27, 2004, 01:36: Message edited by: djtool ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
Personally I view it as not worth the risk for raising my taxes on something which may be better for the USA. This gamble is not worth the risk.

What gamble? The U.S. is the only industrialized nation that doesn't provide universal health care, spends more per capita on health care than any other industrialized nation in the world, and ranks a dismal 37th in the world.

Earlier you were saying the moral thing to do is help everyone... now you're saying only those which are american citizens.

Yes, the moral thing is to help everyone, however, this is irrelevant to a _national_ health care system.

I don't believe our government has the wisdom to provide an effective healthcare system for everyone since it cannot even handle the growing national debt.

What wisdom is required? You simply create a fee schedule for the various services that Dr.'s and the system will provide that is similar to the one currently in place. When someone uses a service, you pay the Dr. or hospital accordingly. The only difference between this and the current system is that the government sets the rates instead of the health insurers.

There are thousands which abuse the generosity from America and other governments. Example= My cousin helped a woman move groceries which used food stamps. The groceries were going into a shiny expensive BMW. Despite your mind reading beliefs... I have no ill thoughts to those less fortunate.

This is an irrelevant example. If the person can afford a BMW, then they should not be on food stamps in the first place. That's an example of fraud. Please explain how someone is supposed to gain monetary benefit from a health care system that they've already paid for through taxes? Health care is no different than policing in that it's a public good, and I don't hear you suggesting that police forces should be privatized.

And thus I ask again... why not have the USA provide a Universal Healthcare for all nations!

This is another strawman. If those nations were willing to pay taxes to the U.S. to gain healthcare services, then they should, of course, gain access to such services.

There is no reason why the U.S. shouldn't fix its own social problems before trying to fix those of the rest of the world anyways.

It's not like the U.S. has doctors and nurses just sitting around bored. Heck it takes me 5 months before I can make my next doctors appointment after each visit... any cancelation means waiting another 5 months. The taxes could be as high as what switzerland is paying or may not be.... but not worth the gamble.

They could also be as low as the U.K's, where once they pay half as much per person once again. You must remember that the U.S. system costs more per person than every single other system in any industrialized nation in the entire world. All of which guarantee health care to everyone.