MP game - "Pantheons" Started

[Boron]

Lex said:

Its also useful to know that Seraphs can't seige a fortification in a million years. Even a group of 20 Seraphs would need a half dozen turns sometimes. So building castles is a good defence against Caelum, since it means the worst they can do is cause unrest and disrupt income for a turn.

Also, is everybody forgetting that anything etheral can fly through a storm? That means etheral SCs or Ghosts or Vampires can attack Seraphs directly on the first turn. If you have more then Caelum has Seraphs, you'll win. In mid to late game, any player with a blood economy should have no problem attacking Caelum. And you don't need to attack Caelum's armies, obviously you attack Caelum's empire and force his armies into a defence posture.

Are you sure about vampires etc. flying during a storm ?!?
Afaik it doesn't work .

Your fortification hint is not very helpful .... .
First some nations like ulm play usually with a high admin fort so madcastling is not an option .
Second severe madcastling is so expensive that you fall behind in research or other important areas .
Third you don't need to really siege the castles just as you said taxing to 200% is enough .
On other provinces than the capitol you can normally keep anyways a small seiging force to put unrest >100 . Often there are no mages .

The false horror is too powerful but mainly because of the problem with the fear aura as Stormbinder / Arryn suppose .

2 or 3 seraphs with a few archers can't be beaten even by a small garrison + pd .
You would need to have everywhere mages or SCs but thats impossible for a long time .

Level 6 research is earlygame , at about turn 10-12 at least you have it researched and it gives you good SC buff magic as well .

Especially in a teamgame where you get probably gold from other players you can very quickly build 2-3 new castles and spam hordes of seraphs .
No enemy expect pan cw and ermor can beat that in early - midgame reliable and not too costintensive .

[Lex]

Boron said:

Are you sure about vampires etc. flying during a storm ?!?
Afaik it doesn't work .

Vampires are etheral. False Horrors are etheral. False Horrors can fly in a storm. Therefor Vampires can fly in a storm. It also makes sense that if you're etheral, a little wind won't stop you from flying around.

Boron said:
Especially in a teamgame where you get probably gold from other players you can very quickly build 2-3 new castles and spam hordes of seraphs .
No enemy expect pan cw and ermor can beat that in early - midgame reliable and not too costintensive .

for the record, I've had a surplus of gold all game. I've been giving it out whenever its needed. Remember that no one has attacked me, with the exception of a single scout who took one of my undefended provinces TWICE. So I've just been sitting on high income provinces and enjoying the quiet life with Pangaea while an early raiding army of 12 seraphs split up and had some fun down south.

Edit: i actually had more then 12 seraphs to start with.. i lost a whole raiding party to machaka's Black Hunters and I've since been avoiding him

[Lex]

also, consider that Caelum has the absolutly perfect starting position for this team game. Its protected from almost all sides, and is far enough away from the other team that it would take considerable time for non-flying armies to try attacking it. In my opinion, that simple starting position is what made Caelum unstopable, and not the spell False Horror

Imagine how things would have been if Caelum started next to Ulm? Or next to two opponents. So far I think most people missed the point about how to defeat Caelum. Their biggest weakness is their near-inability to seige a castle. A good general would not try to mad-castle. A good opposing general would go straight for Caelum's capital and/or production centres and steal their castle with typically low defence (Watch Tower or Mauseleum). Once you have their production centres, Caelum is helpless, and will most likely never be able to get them back. They might have a few Seraphs left, but they are defeated.

[The Panther]

I admit that I did wonder what was the logic for placing Caelum in such a remote starting location on the map. Switching Jontunheim and Caelum start locations would have made a big difference, I think.

I still believe that Caelum does not really have any big weaknesses, though, except for being kind of weak early on with the wimpy national troops. Other than that, it is a solid race, the best in the mid-game for sure.