How to mod Angels to not be wimps.

[Arryn]

Careful, Zen. Haven't you noticed by now that Boron doesn't react well to sarcasm?

[PDF]

Well,
I remarked Angels are quite weak, but didn't bother much because :
1/ When you get Angels you get a very cool leader with F3. With devils you have either units+basic leader , or 1 mage leader, but not both
2/ As far as The Eternal Battle Between Georges and Saddam uhh.. no Angels and Devils is concerned , did you look at the *other* Angel-type guy, the Harbinger ? Horn = AoE 5 attack str 5AP, x3 vs devils, this could kill 12 devils in 2 rounds !! Guy costs 25 pearls, not that expensive.

So the "angel" side ain't that poor ... But I agree that stg like say Att+2 def+4 and Prot to 10 will make the basic Angeltrooper more worthwhile.

[Boron]

Arryn said:
Careful, Zen. Haven't you noticed by now that Boron doesn't react well to sarcasm?

Lol .
That's perhaps a language thing lol
If the sarcasm is not absolutely clear it is a bit hard to know if this is sarcasm or not .


Back on the topic though with Zens suggestion the Angel then together with a firebless might be really frightening even to an Ice devil SC e.g. but why not this should be his role i guess .
His low hp + def let him die still pretty easy to non undead/demons .

[Pocus]

The Angelic ost is also a bit costly because it can be projected anywhere. I would vote for some more HP though, like a tiny +4

[Huzurdaddi]

you look at the *other* Angel-type guy, the Harbinger ? Horn = AoE 5 attack str 5AP, x3 vs devils, this could kill 12 devils in 2 rounds !! Guy costs 25 pearls, not that expensive.

I take it you have not tried this. I have. They do not work. I had a thread about it some time ago. I figure that the horn has an MR check it's the only way I can explain the total non-factor that is the horn of the harbringer. It's useless. Does nothing. Zip. Clearly you should try things before claiming that they fix everything.

You also didn't account for the double attacks of the Devil and the paralytic poison of the tail

I know it was bad enough just with what I was showing. I did not want to make it seem like I was piling on. Of course that is how it works in game.

Thus the Angel will repel (occasionally) a devil thrust, and has a much greater chance to one hit the devil away.

Doesn't that require the devil to fail a moral check? I don't think that will be happening any time soon.

add in a decent about of att. (I'd say 4 is enough).

This would help substantially. Of course if the angels can hit it will be an intersting battle. The angles will probably 1 hit the devils and the devils will one hit the angles. Weird battles to be sure.

Heh, a Blessing that actually works for it's blessed units?!?! OMG.

An Angel that is the bane of all Undead?!? OMG.

Keep away from that, most assuredly.

HA. I have to totally agree.

liked the damage shield that worked specifically against undead Zen (IIRC) mentioned a while back when discussing Virtue

I think that is it! Perhaps it could be implemented as follows: a second attack which does some minimal damage ( let's say 4 points ) x3 against devils/undead with a good sized area effect ( like 5 squares or something ) with no range. Much like the harbinger's horn ( but less powerful ). If you can mod 2nd attacks it should be brain dead simple to implement. That along with the +4 attack would make them USEFUL ( but perhaps not cost effective ) against devils.

Interesting.

Perhaps good can at least hold off evil in the eternal war!

[PvK]

Devils have built-in weaknesses in the various spells and weapons that are extra-effective against them. Angels are vulnerable to everything that affects magic beings, though, but devils don't generally have those themselves.

Angels are generally sacred, though, so if you are really "holy enough" , you may be able to make up the difference. It seems thematic that pretender gods with weak bless effects would have a harder time using angels to full effect. Similarly, perhaps during an ascenscion war, demons do tend to have the upper hand in some ways. Once someone is a real god, perhaps their bless bonus lets angels or whatever minion they choose take care of things like demons. In other words, I'm not sure that we'd necessarily expect angels to be as dangerous as the better demons. Seems more like a thematic question that could be answered either way. I'd be interested to hear what Illwinter might have to say about why they chose the values they did.

Seems though like one thing the Angels could really use which would be thematic, would be a defense that only worked against demons.

PvK

[Huzurdaddi]

To summarize!

Were I to mod them I would probably do the following:

1) Attack +4
2) 2nd melee attack. Area attack let's say 1. Damage 4 x5 versus undead/demon.
3) An air shield would be nice. It's kind of a shame that they die to arrows like that. either 50% or 75%.

Would I summon such a troop? I think so. They are good against the most common SC's undead/demons. And anything that counters what we see a lot of today ( bane lords gone wild! ) is, IMO, a good thing.

Heck them being remotely targetable could be a *real* boone as they could potentially KILL the solo undead SC/Demons that are running around all of the time. Horray.

Hell it would even be nice if there was another Version of the spell that worked like Ghost Riders in that the host would go away after the combat. It would, of course, cost considerably less than the current spell. Perhaps 10 astral pearls.

[Huzurdaddi]

Ok #3 is optional. It may make them *too* good ( but it's really not a big thing ).

I think that #1 and #2 combined would make them quite excellent at what they are supposed to do: kill those unholy things without sigifigantly empowering them against normal troops ( which is the only thing that they are even a little good at today ).