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View Poll Results: Am I just an idiot, or is this game hard?
No, this game is rediculously hard. 3 13.04%
Yes. you are just an idiot. 20 86.96%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old November 28th, 2004, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Ok...

Haha, Noooo problem.
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  #2  
Old November 29th, 2004, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: Ok...

There is a lot to learn. I remember one of my first mistakes..thinking I only needed one shipyard in each system.

A lot of 4X games are the same (kind of) in that research is the key to the win. That and a strong economy. If you have that, a fleet to be reckoned with will come.

I agree with Atrocities...another choice would have been nice on the poll. Just because you are having a hard time beating the game doesn't mean you're an idiot. It probably means you haven't understood the importance of some things you need to do (yet).

How many games have you played?
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  #3  
Old November 29th, 2004, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: Ok...

Personally I always set Victory Conditions like Player has X% of 2nd place empire and has researched X% of the tech tree. I usually set both fairly high (1st on 150-200% and second 80-100%) which means the game still is challenging, but you have goals to work towards other than the annihilation of all other life in the galaxy.
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  #4  
Old November 29th, 2004, 01:07 AM

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Default Re: Ok...

Are you playing against the standard AI's? Or do you have something like TDM AI's installed? I've got to the point where AI's are completely simple unless they are TDM AI's.
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  #5  
Old November 29th, 2004, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: Ok...

I say mod your own AI. There was one AI that was very hard to beat. An AI Challenge was issued and as far as I can recall, it was never beaten. Do any of you recall who made that AI?
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  #6  
Old November 29th, 2004, 04:05 AM
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Default Re: Ok...

Quote:
Atrocities said:
I say mod your own AI. There was one AI that was very hard to beat. An AI Challenge was issued and as far as I can recall, it was never beaten. Do any of you recall who made that AI?
Wasn't it not an AI, but the AI Campaign mod on some certain settings? High bonus with lots of AIs or something. Any single SE4 AI can always be beaten (assuming it is not a heavily cheating AI with lots of super powerful AI-only devices (which AIC is not...)), given enough time...
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  #7  
Old November 29th, 2004, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: Ok...

Here's some dumb things I did when I first started playing:

- I thought you needed a spaceport on every planet. You only need one in each system (unless you take the "Natural Merchant" trait which means you never need any spaceports)

- I also thought that 1 spaceyard per system was enough. That isn't enough. Read the FAQ in section 17 on "economic harmony".

- I had a rude awakening when the first Psychic AI used an Allegiance Subverter on my ships. Beware of these. Some AI's use them pretty well. They steal your ships.

- I lost a really big fleet to a minefield before I realized that the AI likes to mine warp points. Make minesweeping ships.

- I learned the hard way that Point Defense Cannons are essential against an enemy that uses missiles or fighters. They are good against drones and sats too but these generally aren't that much of a headache.


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  #8  
Old November 29th, 2004, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: Ok...

You mean racial traits? Fyron wrote a pretty good article about min/maxing your empire design available here. The one thing I don't agree with in it is that lowering farming and refining aptitudes below 80% isn't usually worth the cost IMO. For racial tech traits, it largely depends on the player what you should take, but religious and crystalline are very powerful. In fact, religious is often Banned in multiplayer because it's TOO powerful.

For what techs to research in the game:
Weapons: early game, projectile weapons only; mid game, phased-energy weapons (requires physics 2) are excellent; late game, energy stream weapons (requires physics 1) are flat out the best straight damage dealing weapon in the game once everyone has phased shields. Also research point defense weapons (requires military science 1) to deal with anyone who might be using missiles or fighters. Special damage type weapons, like the shield depleter or ionic disperser, can also be useful.

Other combat tech: ship construction is very important - get at least level 4 fairly quickly for the large mount. Shields are good, but if you're going up against phased-polaron beams they'll be useless until level 6. As discussed earlier, sensors and combat support are crucial. High-level armor (requires chemistry 1) is also good, and allows level 1 cloaking (stealth armor) as an extra benefit. Advanced military science (requires military science 2) is important for training facilities, and also gives the cheapest to research cloak detection sensors.

Other military-oriented techs with no direct combat effect: better space yards tech can greatly decrease build times, but it's expensive to research. Repair is important if you plan to do a lot of retrofitting, and it's also a good idea to have at least one repair ship accompanying your fleets.

Economic techs: minerals extraction 2 is valuable, but hold off on 3 for a while and don't bother with 4 and above unless you REALLY have nothing better to do. Computers (requires industry 1) are quite valuable, and as a side benefit can provide immunity to alliegance subverters. Applied research 2 can give a nice boost, but don't get it too early. Troops (requires construction 1) can easily negate the penalty of taking 50% happiness (5 small troops with nothing but a cockpit on each planet will do it - more is better), allowing you to gain an extra 800 race points for other stuff without a significant penalty if you don't wait too long to research them.

Racial techs: If you took Deeply Religious, forget about sensors research; you have something much better - the Talisman. Get religious tech level 4 as soon as you can without handicapping yourself in other areas too severely. This will get you the religious talisman, which gives your ships a 100% hit rate regardless of other factors. If you think you'll have time to get it before getting into any serious wars, you can drop aggressiveness to 75% in race setup for lots of free race points with no penalty once you get the talisman.

If you took Crystalline, research crystalline technology to get crystalline armor. Lots of crystalline armor with just one or two good shield generators can render ships nearly invincible. Ignore crystalline weapons unless fighting another crystalline race, as the armor-skipping property of crystalline weapons will avoid triggering the special ability of crystalline armor.

If you took Organic Race, organic weapons are somewhat inferior to other choices for damage efficiency, but they are uniformly cheap in minerals and radioactives, which allows faster build times. Organic technology is also good for organic armor for a while, but it's real benefit is the population growth facilities. Get organic tech 6 and watch your population soar with Replicant Center III's adding 40M population to every planet every turn. Expensive, but well worth it eventually.

Psychic Race - good for alliegance subverters and system-wide training facilities, but not worth the cost IMO. Alliegance subverters can be countered by master computers, and regular training facilities are good enough for my purposes.

Temporal Race - Temporal weapons excel at taking down shields, but they cost a LOT of radioactives. It takes a lot of research, but temporal technology eventually gives temporal space yards, a 50% improvement over regular space yards at max tech. They take longer to build, though, and you can't upgrade from a regular space yard to a temporal one - you have to scrap and rebuild.

Edit: About retrofitting. Retrofitting has two uses: upgrading obsolete ships, and reducing build times. The first is obvious, the second is explained below:

Say you have a ship that takes two turns to build.
Standard approach: build ship in two turns, send to training center, wait, send to front lines.

Retrofitting approach: design another Version of the ship with only what you can build in one turn, and another with what you can add by retrofitting the one-turn-build design (calculate 50% cost difference). Build ship in one turn, send to training center, retrofit twice, wait a turn less and have the space yard build another in the mean time, send to front lines. With bigger ships that take 3, 4, or more turns to build, this approach can have the ship ready several turns earlier than it would be normally, and free up the space yard to build a lot more of them. It costs a little bit extra resources, though, but not a huge amount.
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  #9  
Old November 30th, 2004, 06:00 PM

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Default Re: Ok...

Form one new player to the next... the only game I ever beat was the demo, and that was because I ran out of turns. A good tip is to start a game with everything researched to see what weapons and ship sizes you like best. Then, when you start a new game, focus on the research areas that fit your tactics best and don't worry about teh rest till later in the game.

Personally, I have never beat a full Version game, and I've been playing for slightly more than a year. The closest I ever came was a game against the Kaelons when tehy ruled two thirds of the galaxy and I had the rest. By all rights I was the winner but they would enver surrender. To actually win the game would have taken months of real playing time of just capturing worlds...
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  #10  
Old November 30th, 2004, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Ok...

Actually completing a game is very tedious and boring. I doubt that more than a handful of people regularly play their games all the way to completion...
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