How to use mage in a battle

[Skolem]

Thanks a lot!
It gives me some Idea how to do it, now, this was a rather end game tactic, or I am mistaking? My big problem is to survive the midgame, because if I can not achieve that I will not be able to use such tactics. Is every mage army who wants to be effective condemn to have 15 mage as a minimum, what do you do if you don't find nature mages? how usefull are maybe 4 Theurgs casting soul slay and the likes, i never was able to make any difference with these spells, I don't have the feeling they change anything in the outcome of a battle.

[Zooko]

I've had fine success against independents by using lots of mages who cast "Body Ethereal, Luck, Communion Slave". Put one of those mages in a square with either two man-sized unit or one cavalry-sized unit, where the units are on "hold and attack". Of course, you want one or two mages who cast Communion Master instead of Communion Slave.

I'm a newbie -- this could be a useless tactic against actual enemies, but I managed to conquer a level-7 independent province with heavy cavalry without losing any mages, so I'm happy. I had two mages casting False Horror to slow down the Cavalry and two Grand Masters of Marignon, who cast Communion Master, Summon Earthpower, and Phoenix Pyre.

I hope my enemies don't read this thread and learn all my secrets.

[Boron]

Skolem said:
Thanks a lot!
It gives me some Idea how to do it, now, this was a rather end game tactic, or I am mistaking? My big problem is to survive the midgame, because if I can not achieve that I will not be able to use such tactics. Is every mage army who wants to be effective condemn to have 15 mage as a minimum, what do you do if you don't find nature mages? how usefull are maybe 4 Theurgs casting soul slay and the likes, i never was able to make any difference with these spells, I don't have the feeling they change anything in the outcome of a battle.

Yeah my army was a lategame army .

In Midgame as Pythium you though field big theurg armies as well .
Nature is normally never an issue for pythium in lategame . One arch theurg should then have the N random , + ring of wizardy/sorcery = n3 . Then forge thistle mace = n4 , then just cast lamia queens or Ivy kings for more Nature mages . More likely you found somewhere druids or jade sorceresses or similiar already though .


In midgame Pythium is often a bit weak because they lack good SCs / summoned troops normally in that phase of the game . A theurg / communion slave army is the way to go then though .

use about 5 communion masters + about 5-10 normal theurgs for false horror spamming to block the enemy + about 35 communion slaves for your main army .
If you have relief casters as well already you can make more mages communion masters .

For scripted spells mainly chose the following :
-Thunderstrike
-Falling frost
-Enslave mind

Try to have 1 staff of storms

As troops you can use either something like 50-100 principes or if you already have rather 50-100 mechanical men .

Such an army is extremely hard to beat on the battlefield midgame .

Use this main army to attack the enemy capitol . Your biggest enemies are Fires from afar / assasins at that stage .

Against weak defended provinces 1-2 theurgs with a few guards spamming false horrors are enough to beat most PDs / Small guarding forces .

[alexti]

I would say that attacking anything with that army is quite risky. The opponent opens with rain of stones x 2 (or more) and your army is no more.

[Tuidjy]

I am always amazed by some people who keep giving advice that presumes that
their opponent is brain dead. The reason you will not see armies of 50 mages
except in artificial winner-takes-all battles, is that big armies cost a lot,
require huge upkeep, move glacially slow, and are decimated as soon as they show
up outside a dome.

Not by remote spells, but by battlefield wide spells like rain of stones, flame
storm, astral tempest and wrathful skies. Watch how the mega army fights one
turn, and on the next, teleport in a few mages that will cast the most suitable
of the above mentioned spells. Do not forget to also:

1. Provide some cannon fodder with 'Call of the Wild', 'Call of the Wind',
or 'Imprint souls', so that your mages survive the first enemy turn.
2. Garantee a retreat province for your mages (no, they are not supposed to win
the battle, just cripple the clumsy behemont.
3. If possible, garantee that there is nowhere for his routers to retreat.

This is not to say that remote spells or assassins are not to be used if you
have them, but as Boron said, they will only inconvenience the enemy. A nice
astral tempest will ruin most armies. Armies are for defense and mopping up.
The enemy's back is broken with carefully targetted surgical strikes executed
by a few specialist mages...

[deccan]

Tuidjy said:
I am always amazed by some people who keep giving advice that presumes that
their opponent is brain dead. The reason you will not see armies of 50 mages
except in artificial winner-takes-all battles, is that big armies cost a lot,
require huge upkeep, move glacially slow, and are decimated as soon as they show
up outside a dome.

So does this mean that mage-based armies designed for using communion generally don't work in practice?

[archaeolept]

there is no general rule. it depends upon game settings, players, and who you're fighting. multiple small communion squads, w/ a relief caster, are probably safer, though.

[Skolem]

there is no general rule. it depends upon game settings, players, and who you're fighting. multiple small communion squads, w/ a relief caster, are probably safer, though.

And may I ask how they are like? this are the kind of army I had thought about, and which I do not bring to function. Something like 3 to 5 mage, (with some normal troops or not?) and maybe a summon or two, what should this guys cast?

[Boron]

Good points Tuidjy .

Your post showed me that i still have to learn a lot in battle tactics .

What you and Alexti said is true .
Almost any nation has rather fragile mages , especially for pythium this is true .


If you play e.g. Vanheim/LoT do the mirror images help against earth quakes , wrathful skies lightnings etc. or not ?

These spells make most national mages in quantities >5 rather useless .
Vanheim , Pan , Jotunheim + LoT are at least partially exeptions but all other nations should have extreme troubles there with their national mages .

This shifts then in lategame the balance more to SCs + Strong summonable mages ?

[atul]

The way I see it the point of using mages is to ensure you inflict more damage to your opponent than you receive. With SCs it's a bit of a win/lose situation, with mages and troops there's more shades of gray.

As to using mages in battles, I'd think you should never put mages in the field unless you have a specific purpose - especially in the early game they're more valuable researching or sitesearching.

What uses mages have, then? The way I see it, several depending on who they are. Also, nearly all the mages are going to need a screen of troops who protect them and do the fighting.

Boosting your troops: This helps your troops to overtake an enemy force with less casualities than without boosts - always good on a long run. Spells like Body Ethereal, Regeneration, Protection, Flaming Arrows and so on help either to minimize the beating they take or maximize the beating they give.

Supplementing your troops with summons: Raise Skeletons, Phantasmal Warriors/Wolves, Summon Imps and so on. Have battle summons do most of the work wearing enemy down (and taking most of the beating from their mages) so that your troops can mop up later on.

Cracking the toughies: In case there are some tough units in the enemy's army, try to find out the weakness they have (low MR, missing elemental immunity) and exploit it. Spells depend on the weakness.

General fire support: Ease the work of your troops. The spells can range from direct damage (Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Soul Slay) to scary stuff (Terror, Agony, Panic) to debuffs (Paralyze, Rust Mist, Entangle).

And of course there's the role of lone mage casting battlefield-wide destruction spells, not to beat the enemy but to inflict maximum pain.

As a general rule of thumb I'd say forget about personal buffs other than Quickness and those that boost either Precision or magic levels. The point is your troops are supposed to protect your mages, and if they rout your mage is anyway either routing or unconscious - fire shield won't do any good then. The first few rounds are crucial: less friendly fire, more time for summons to reach the front. Of course this is conditional, use protection spells to counter your enemy's attacks and so on.

So I'd say the question to be asked shouldn't be "what do I do with mages?" but "what do I do with mages x,y,z put against situation n or m?" The big advantage mage/troop army has against SCs is that they're usually much more expendable.

But, this is just an opinion of one guy, so take it with a grain of salt. And all the other usual disclaimers.