The Talisman

[Fyron]

Retroseries build those puppies. Don't wait 20 turns. Design a series of ships that get as close to the maximum retrofit limit of 150% (total) cost from the old design to the new. With several stages, you can get the initial hull build in maybe 6 turns, then spend 4 more ordering retrofits. Takes a lot of resources in storage, but it works well.

[TurinTurambar]

Ah yes. I'd heard lots of talk about it but never actually done it, so it didn't even come to mind. And I've got more than enough resources lying around with all these partnerships going.

But doesn't a design containing a Stellar Manip device.. any such device... take a long time to build? I'm assuming you'd have to have that component on there in the first build, wouldn't you? Or is there no restriction as there is in colony modules? (No retrofitting allowed from a class without a colony module to a class containing one.)

Hey, if you can find one of the threads discussing this strategy amongst the newb stuff, could you post a link to it please so I can read up on it?

Thanks!
Turin

[douglas]

There's no restriction on adding or removing stellar manipulation components through retrofits at all, aside from the cost difference limit. This will cost a LOT of resources, though, at least for the last retrofit, as you will be both removing some very expensive components that serve only to bring the ship's cost up and adding the even more expensive final component. The final retrofit can easily cost 100k+ in minerals alone. In the case of a star destroyer, it will be 120k minerals, 60k organics, and 120k radioactives, plus 30% of the cost of the components you remove. This comes directly out of storage before resource production for the turn, though you can also use resources given to you by other empires that turn, and the product of resource conversions. Income from scrapping ships will also be available. It's better just to have the storage, though.

[Fyron]

The concept is pretty simple. Copy your current design. Add up the 3 resource costs. Divide this total by 1.5. This is the absolute minimum cost you must design the previous step to cost. If your current step costs 10000 resources total, the previous step must cost at least 10000 / 1.5 = 6667 resources. ALWAYS round up. You need to make this step cost as close to 6667 as possible, without going under. Try to use as many of the same components as possible, so as to mimize the number of components that must be added and removed, thus reducing total overall costs. Retroseries design is somewhat of an artform... Once you have this done, you can now build this new design and retrofit it to the target design. Repeat this process to add as many steps as you would like.

Good filler components have a high (total resource cost) per (size) ratio. Master Computers help tremendously, as they are small and quite expensive. Plague Bombs make great filler components, especially for the initial build design. They are fairly expensive and cost only organics, so you can get the resource costs very balanced to minimize the build time of the first step ship.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Are the resource steps calculated per resource or total resource?

[douglas]

Total resources.

[Thermodyne]

If you meet a religious race early, then partner up or kill them. If you meet one late in the game, then partner up or use tactics that limit the talasmins atvantage. Many of these have been mentioned. One thing to avoid at all costs is a battle where the religious fleet is going to get the first shot.

[kerensky]

Are you using Devnul for this game??? If so, I'd suggest my remedy for religious races. Research missile tech up to plasma missile level three. They have a range o 19 and do 120 damage at max range. Since they weigh onlt 25kt, you can load up a ship with these and overwhelm their PD.

[Grandpa Kim]

Posted by Thermodyne:

One thing to avoid at all costs is a battle where the religious fleet is going to get the first shot.

Absolutely true!! But it must be a true first shot advantage; two fleets entering from opposite sides of the combat map won't do it.

I learned how true playing talisman vs. talisman. The player with the first shot has a HUGE advantage. In one battle, my 500 ships were obliterated by 300 enemy ships with first shot advantage. I killed less than half of his 300. Later, in a smaller battle, I suffered minimal losses while eliminating his fleet with my first shot advantage.

Find ways to get that first shot advantage; if he gets it, you are toast. One sneaky way is to get him chasing your "slower" fleet. When he finally catches you, you will not be on opposite sides of the combat map, you will be packed together on the side you both entered. Virtually all your ships will have convenient targets.

Of course eliminating his planets is the surest way: capture, destroy retail or destroy wholesale (star destroyer). Without support, his ships will wink out of existence.

[Elowan]

Seems to me that the best bet is to remove the Talisman from the game.