OT (or is it?): American Imperialism

[Gozra]

Grin. Well opinated maybe passionate nope. It is my typing style I put captials in were they are not suppose to be and I am too lazy to remove them.
And with global warming in full swing we will have plenty of water to flush toliets.
I find this thread is interesting.
Someone mentioned our cultral Imperlism and seemed to resent it and I guess that could be a valid viewpoint but here in America you see a great deal of cross contamination of cultral influnces. I grew up in all sorts of diffrent places here in America and I found big diffrences and got caught in them (had a tendency when asked were I was from to just give the last place I was from you don't want to tell a southerner that your from The north). Unfortunatly History shows that a successful culture is one that blots out or absorbs the other culture. I am not saying that's right I am just pointing out that that is what happens. And America is a melting pot of cultures and I bet we are still struggling to find The American Culture. The United States of America is a very complex thing made up of a lot of groups. Corporate America. Federal America. North. South. Yuppies. Generation X. Black. Latino. European. Native American. Asian. Californians. No telling how things will sort themselves out. I'm hoping for the one big happy Family thing myself, but I am not holding my breath.

[Atrocities]

alarikf, we all know that your a Clinton fanatic so arguing with you about Clinton really is pointless.

[AMF]

Atrocities said:
alarikf, we all know that your a Clinton fanatic so arguing with you about Clinton really is pointless.

Nope. Clinton had a whole raft of problems and screw ups and I wouldn't vote for him today, and Bush has done a number of good things that I applaud him for. I'd like to think I'm a bit more objective about things than you imply. In fact, the heck with that. I KNOW I am a lot more objective than you.

And here's why: As always Atrocities, you make an inflammtory statement, then when you are rebutted with facts, you claim that "Oh, no need to be fanatical" or "I was just kidding" or "I don't really want to talk politics" or something like that that allows you to take the side door out of the debate and ironically sound high and mighty in so doing. Trust me - I do this for a living, and to those who actually talk and study politics it sounds clearly like you're afraid of actual substantive debates. You keep falling back on ad hominen attacks and divorcing yourself from rebutting the actual points made, instead you come up with some way out to save face. Hey, that's fine, but you can't do that and also claim your having a debate about the issues. You're not. You're just yelling fire in a crowded theater and leaving through the back while everyone responds.

Here's a thought experiment to try: when was the last time you changed your opinion about something based on a debate you had with someone on "the other side"?

Odds are, if most people are honest, they'll realize they have never changed their minds about something substantive except when it served their interests.

For me, at least two big instances come to mind immediately: I used to be fanatically pro-gun control. Conversations over the years with right wingers ahve convinced me of the merits (both philosophical and otherwise) of gun ownership. Heck, I even own a gun now.

I actually supported the Iraq war in the beginnging. So much that I was in Iraq for the first five weeks of the war as an embedded analyst with the Marines of 1st FSSG. (go guys! yay!). And, yes, I volunteered for it. Knowing what I know now, and the lies and missteps that have occurred, I realize what a mistake it was. (still very supportive of getting rid of Saddam, of course, but the other stuff we really screwed the pooch on...and for stupid and purely political reasons).

I am most likely in the process of changing my minds on school vouchers. Farm subsidies. I think we did the absolute right thing in Afghanistan (was in the mideast for that war too btw...)...I think we should have killed Saddam years ago...and, oh by the way, Clinton tried to (or did you forget that too?)...

Put your money where your mouth is. Respond to the FACTS - don't just take the side door out. If you are convinced of the rightness of your position, then you should be able to logically defend it and you should not be afraid to do so.

I'm waiting.

[Alneyan]

alarikf said:
I am [...] changing my minds [...]

I *knew* there was something fishy with you Alarikf. Sorry, couldn't resist. I will now leave this thread, and bring my silliness somewhere else.

[Gozra]

I always thought Clinton is the greatist Politician we ever produced.( I don't admire politicians ) It's lucky for us his flaws got in the way of putting his mark on American society forever.

I have read some about the Initial stages of the Iraq war And understanding what I do it was obvious that
A. reporters are really ignorant about military matters
B. The military carried out it's orders
C. The Politicians were prepared for disaster and not for success
D. I am convinced that the Press is so focused on selling papers that The Truth is just another tool to be used or not used
E. I know that most people in the United States are ignorant of the Constitution and only have a hazy understanding of Rights and Responsiablities they have.
F.We are allowing Corporate America to define America
G.We are headed toward serious consequences
H.This is one of the most Interesting times in History.

[AMF]

I think I totally agree with every one of your points here.....I would say that the plans could have been a bit better for the Phase IV stuff, of course...but that was a political not as much a military decision.

Gozra said:
I always thought Clinton is the greatist Politician we ever produced.( I don't admire politicians ) It's lucky for us his flaws got in the way of putting his mark on American society forever.

I have read some about the Initial stages of the Iraq war And understanding what I do it was obvious that
A. reporters are really ignorant about military matters
B. The military carried out it's orders
C. The Politicians were prepared for disaster and not for success
D. I am convinced that the Press is so focused on selling papers that The Truth is just another tool to be used or not used
E. I know that most people in the United States are ignorant of the Constitution and only have a hazy understanding of Rights and Responsiablities they have.
F.We are allowing Corporate America to define America
G.We are headed toward serious consequences
H.This is one of the most Interesting times in History.

[Frederick_d_Ohlmann]

[I will go to english dictionnary for meaning of "interesting"]
A. Agree. Even if I am a pacifist it's too obvious
B. Agree.
C. Can be discuss but I don't think it would have change anything.
D. Yes. Nobody is interested by truth ; military lie to have an easier task ; newspaper lies to make money ; politician lie to be reelected.
E. Sadly, yes.
F. Replace "america" by "world". I can't find a country where it's false.
G. Obvious !
H. I remember that in some culture it's a curse...

[Atrocities]

And here's why: As always Atrocities, you make an inflammtory statement, then when you are rebutted with facts, you claim that "Oh, no need to be fanatical" or "I was just kidding" or "I don't really want to talk politics" or something like that that allows you to take the side door out of the debate and ironically sound high and mighty in so doing. Trust me - I do this for a living, and to those who actually talk and study politics it sounds clearly like you're afraid of actual substantive debates. You keep falling back on ad hominen attacks and divorcing yourself from rebutting the actual points made, instead you come up with some way out to save face. Hey, that's fine, but you can't do that and also claim your having a debate about the issues. You're not. You're just yelling fire in a crowded theater and leaving through the back while everyone responds.

You’re a feisty one aren’t you? I sent you a PM.

[AMF]

Atrocities said:
I sent you a PM.

S'all good man. See my PM.

Alarik

[Gozra]

I do believe there is corporate American Imperialism but the system that created it is in a down swing. I hope. I will be very disappointed when we all find out that ethics and morality in corporations is not cleaned up. It certainly looks like that won't happen.