SEIV is being Pirated

[geoschmo]

Puke,

You obviously feel very strongly about this. But when presented with an explanation why Napster/Warez is wrong, all you can do is cite examples of equally wrong behavior being defined at the time as legal. All I can say to that is "Two wrongs dont make a right."

Of course it is possible that laws and regulations are at times unjust. To argue the contrary would be ridiculous. Do you think that somehow defying Nazi laws encouraging religious persecution is somehow on a equal moral ground with defying perfectly reasonable copyright laws? That's a bit of a stretch. Not all laws are just. But your moral right to defy unjust laws does not extend to every law you disagree with.

There are two clear differences between Napster/Warez, and your hypothetical toll bridge. First has to do with the common and accepted use. The common and accepted use of a toll bridge is to get across a river. Nothing at all illegal about that. The common and accepted use of Napster/Warez is to steal music and software that you did not pay for. Now, if you have only ever used Napster/Warez for perfectly legitimate uses, good for you. But you are naive if you don't think you are in the microscopically small minority in that regard.

The second difference is, even the drug dealers pay the toll for the use of the bridge.

Geoschmo

[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 29 August 2001).]

[Puke]

quote:

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Originally posted by geoschmo:
Puke,

You obviously feel very strongly about this. But when presented with an explanation why Napster/Warez is wrong, all you can do is cite examples of equally wrong behavior being defined at the time as legal. All I can say to that is "Two wrongs dont make a right."

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I think my point has been missed. one Last clarification before i dissapear. the law, is in general, a good idea. its not always. if you live your life by other peoples standards of decency without forming educated opinions on your own, you are living without free will and are a drone to the mechanisms of popular society.

I agree that many behaviors discussed on this thread are against the law. I think that without adherance to the law, there can be no civic order. I think that without some degree of civic disobediance, there can be no social progress. I think that the recording industry, musicians, music listeners, and software pirates have all had their fair share of seperate yet equally stupid ideas. I think that I will keep on doing what I choose as long as I feel that it is the correct corse of action to further my goals. That meant exactly what it sounded like. To qualify that Last bit, I think that I will never engage in a course of action that is detremental to an industry or an artform that I enjoy. And if anyone gets wise and asks who determines what is detremental, the obvious answer is "me."

feel free to disagree, im off to haunt another thread.

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"...the green, sticky spawn of the stars"
(with apologies to H.P.L.)

[Phoenix-D]

quote:

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Do you think that somehow defying Nazi laws encouraging religious persecution is somehow on a equal moral ground with defying perfectly reasonable copyright laws? That's a bit of a stretch. Not all laws are just. But your moral right to defy unjust laws does not extend to every law you disagree with.

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Here's where you loose him.

Some people find said religious persecution laws perfectlly reasonable.

Whether or not a law is reasonable and ethical is the test I use to determine if I care about it at all. Laws do not determine ethics and ethics don't determine laws. Someone makes a law making it illegal for anyone under 18 to use a computer? Tough. Someone makes it legal to kill? Also tough, doesn't mean I'm going to run out and machine gun people.

Applying this to warz/napster, warz is bad because you're supporting the inethical uses of that site even when you download it ethiclly (i.e. you bought the game and the CD broke, hasn't arrived, etc).

Napster? No. You CAN use it for the same idea as warz, and THAT is bad, but napster itself it not. You might as well say the WWW is bad because it allows Warz sites..

Phoenix-D

[Saxon]

On a related topic, those of you who would like to download Beowulf or other classics, check out the Gutenberg Library on the web. It is a free service where old texts are typed in a plain format, so anyone can download and enjoy them. They have gone through some pains to ensure that only legally distributable texts are on the site, so you don’t have to deal with the ethical struggles that this thread has been discussing! I pulled Sun Tzu’s Art of War off, it was a nice quite download.

Sorry, I don’t have the address handy, but you won’t get too many extra hits if you search for Gutenberg.

[disabled]

About Beowulf and other classic texts, they are public domain, even many translated forms, as the author(S) are all long gone and many of the thousands of translators are dead from old age of getting run down by the devil car running them down.

Only recent translations and commentary can be copyrighted and in the case of classics, you must prove you did not get it from newer services, which very easy if you go to a used book store.

Either way, I doubt anyone will solve the copyright issue in the next few decades. All I know is that I get radio access for free, but my cable TV bill is greater than my electric bill, and just about all forms of media entertainment (books, periodicals, shows, etc.) requirement payment except the radio.

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HADRIAN T. AVENTINE
admin@spaceempires.org
Administrator | SpaceEmpires.org

[Richard]

Some good discussion going on here.

As far as the download option for a game like SE:IV. We have to go one way or the other with a game. The main reason is because if it is a download only game the manual will be electronic. Once we go down that road it is an easy pirate target. Manuals are the number one anti-piracy device that I can think of. Plus if we make a game a download most major sites will not review it since they look at that as shareware.

As far as the multiple PC's in one house I have no issue with that myself personally, I think that is a silly license issue. IN fact have you guys seen what they plan to do with Windows XP to "fix" that problem, scary stuff.

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Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

[tesco samoa]

Richard are you sure you want to throw MS into this topic. I can see about 1000 Posts coming up. As a developer I find MS knows only one thing about copy right. Copy Right. And then defend it.
EULA's are horrible. There is nothing like buying a product and seeing in bold letters "by opening this product you agree to the EULA agreement located on the cd" Then reading it and disagreeing with it. What do you do.
Can't take it back to the store.


Do you people ever read the EULA's you agree to by just signing up to a web site.

Especially the privacy areas or the idea that anything you write becomes the property of the hosting site.

And another thing.

The way i see this Copy right thing going is that it will get to the point that you will have to copy right your own personal video's (trips, backyard bbqing birthdays etc...) pictures etc...

And to do this you will have to pay for that right from some company like MS and if you do not you will not be able to play it on any electronic equipment you own.

Same with music.

I can see it going that way.

I hope it does not happen.

It is not a criminal activity.

If it is then a rolling stop at a stop sign is a criminal activity. And you are a criminal if you do it.

Now all this can change if the Music industry , software industry place their product and consumer ahead of the margin and the stock holder.

But I think greed will win out.

Ethics and moral stances do not belong in this arguement. That is why the laws have to be worked out. It will take time and I do hope they keep the consumer in the best interest. But in the battle of control the consumer has the shallowest pockets.

I think I have even lost myself on this post.

Later.



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