obat44 - West Germany

[DRG]

TheDesertFox said:


[1] Being trained to fire this beast in AT-role at Panzertruppenschule does mean something about its use in the Bundeswehr, don´t you think ?

Arralen said:
All in all, I must say it's astonishing difficult to get any hard facts about Bundeswehr equipment at all. Not because it's top-secret (it's still a conscript army), but because everything is so obscure and mixed-up and unsure (because it's a conscript army ?!).

However, I'll try to get official data about Panzerfaust, Milan I and II, the Marder and other items. May take some time, though....

Perhaps the REASON everyone finds it difficult to pin down exact dates IS BECAUSE they were not all sent to the junkyards the minute they became " obsolete " by more modern equipment. If people were training with it then it's available even though it might be technically out of service. Had a conflict arose, there is a very good chance those "training weapons" would have been used for their orignal purpose. It a grey area. If it wasn't there wouldn't be as much debate as there is.

Don

[DRG]

The problem I have with the Puma ATM is there are only drawings of it. Nobody seems to have an actual photo of one in the field ( at least, I haven't found one yet ). Even the dimensions are listed as "Unspecified". It's hard to build an Icon from that. I can guess but for example a Warrior weighs about 23 tons. The STRYKER about the same ( a little less ) The Puma will be 31 tons and 43 with the armour package. That's a lot of weight for 8 troops so it would be nice to know width and length

Don

[PlasmaKrab]

Has any single one prototype been built yet? The thing is meant to be fielded in 2009 (after the German future warrior program), so it may be still mainly 3D mockups and maybe some plant layouts.

The prolem is the same with many future combat programs, the US FCS for one. How should this one be drawn into an icon yet?

Maybe some provisional versions could be done?

[Arralen]

Puma Info
technical data
max. construction weight 43 t
weight (Schutzstufe A) 31,45 t
weigth (Schutzstufe C) 40,7 t
crew 9 (6+3)
max roadspeed 70 km/h
power to weigth ratio 20 kW/t
length 7.330 mm
width 3.430 mm
hight (overall) 3.050 mm
from http://www.kmweg.de/Schuezenpanzer/s...a_content.html

Those graphics from http://www.freundeskreis-panzergrenadiere.de/132.0.html should be big enough to make an icon ?!

Puma Gun
Rheinmetall Waffe Munition Mauser MK 30-2 (as in Ulan/Austria and Pizarro/Spain), max range 3000m
2 types of ammo:
APFSDS-T-Munition, 63mm HRA, should penetrate M60 up to 1.500m
ABM/KETF-Munition, preprogrammed airburst out to 2500m, very high HEkill
http://www.rheinmetall-detec.de/inde...515&query=Puma

Puma Prototype
A first one should be finished this year, but isn't up to now, AFAIK.

[DRG]

Arralen said:
Puma Info
technical data
max. construction weight 43 t
weight (Schutzstufe A) 31,45 t
weigth (Schutzstufe C) 40,7 t
crew 9 (6+3)
max roadspeed 70 km/h
power to weigth ratio 20 kW/t
length 7.330 mm
width 3.430 mm
hight (overall) 3.050 mm

The problem here is the model is not specified so is it 3.43 m wide with or without the extra 12 tons of armour? Those are *probably* the specs for the A model but that's an assumption. From the looks of the drawings the armour package could easily add the equivalent of an extra 2 pixels to either side of the Icon and 2 pixels may sound like nothing but it makes a big difference when the vehicle is only 48 pixels long and 23 wide. When you add 2 pixels to the width of each side it adds nearly 20% to pre armour package width. If those numbers are for the C model then we get into more assumptions making the A version narrower

The other problem is there isn't even a runner built and details can change a lot between the drawing board and the production vehicle. The German parliament may have approved it but governments change and although this *seems* likely --so have other things in other nations. In a couple of years there will be firmer information

Don