War.... (Historical: 9/11 discussion thread)

geoschmo · #1 September 14th, 2001, 11:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by LazarusLong42:
Oh, yes, absolutely... the AoC created about as loose a federation as one could create. I hadn't really thought of the states as being "nation-states" under the AoC, but I suppose that's probably a better definition. The AoC was barely more binding than, say, the NATO charter, or the EU charter. Though certainly much more than the UN charter, which is as binding as Kleenex.

Eric

Yes, I would say it is very close to the NATO charter. Although if a NATO member wants to go to war with another country we won't really stop them, unless it's another NATO member. But they probably would get kicked out eventually if they were the aggressor.

I wonder how different things would be today if we had kept the AoC?

I think the EU is really just an economic agreement isn't it. Kind of a T&R treaty in SEIV terms? I don't really know though. I didn't think it had any military ramifications at all.

Geoschmo

geoschmo · #2 September 14th, 2001, 11:15 PM

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

The sound you hear is the rest of the forum being put to sleep by Laz and Geo's facinating discussion about 18th and 19th century politics.

Alpha Kodiak · #3 September 14th, 2001, 11:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by geoschmo:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

The sound you hear is the rest of the forum being put to sleep by Laz and Geo's facinating discussion about 18th and 19th century politics.

I don't know, I think it is more interesting than the incessant droning of the talking heads on TV and radio. While this is truly the cataclysmic news story, there really isn't much new to say right at the moment, but that doesn't stop the news from saying the same thing over and o v e r aga...zzzzz

Uh, sorry. Where was I? Oh yeah, maybe I'm just insensitive, but it seems like we should at least start to get back to some sense of normalcy. They can always interrupt with real news. Of course, there is little that is worthwhile on TV normally anyway, so maybe this is an improvement.

Oh well, time to go back to sle... I mean work.

geoschmo · #4 September 14th, 2001, 11:58 PM

Oh man are you right about that.

The only thing worse than hearing the same thing over and over is hearing all these really specific, detailed reports, that turn out to be absolute bunk. That has been happening TOO much the past 48 hours.

I guess the new press rule is if you don't have anything new to say, make something up.

Geoschmo

Lisif Deoral · #5 September 15th, 2001, 12:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by geoschmo:
I think the EU is really just an economic agreement isn't it. Kind of a T&R treaty in SEIV terms? I don't really know though. I didn't think it had any military ramifications at all.

Mainly economic, but not just that. There are also some political obligations and some attempts to coordinate foreign and internal (social) policies.
There's no military involvement - although most of the member states are also members of the NATO.

By the way, there's something I never understood about the American Civil War - had (has?) a member state the right to quit the Union? IOW, had the remaining member states the right to "restore order" through use of force?

Baron Munchausen · #6 September 15th, 2001, 12:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Lisif:
Mainly economic, but not just that. There are also some political obligations and some attempts to coordinate foreign and internal (social) policies.
There's no military involvement - although most of the member states are also members of the NATO.

By the way, there's something I never understood about the American Civil War - had (has?) a member state the right to quit the Union? IOW, had the remaining member states the right to "restore order" through use of force?

That's the central issue of the Civil War, actually. It doesn't explicitly say in the Constitution that a state may withdraw from the union after joining, but it doesn't say that a state may NOT either. Many say that the 10th Amendment, which reserves powers not explicitly given to the Federal govt. for the people or the states, gives a state the implicit right to cecede from the union. This would make the war by the North illegal, but since the North won it got to write the history (and law) books.

shonae · #7 September 15th, 2001, 12:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Lisif:
Mainly economic, but not just that. There are also some political obligations and some attempts to coordinate foreign and internal (social) policies.
There's no military involvement - although most of the member states are also members of the NATO.

You're forgetting that is changing now. Originally it was just an economic agreement but it is now gradually gaining more powers from the member countries. Also an European Defense/Task force is in the process of being formed using soldiers from the EU countries (mainly from Britain and France I think) and there has been talk of the EU becoming a United States of Europe.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the 21st century it came into being!

Ciao
Shonae