Oblivion

[Saber Cherry]

I don't put effort into it, I try to enjoy them. But if a single-player game shoots itself in the foot, I'm not going to whittle crutches for it. How much fun is it to play Go or Magic or Basketball against yourself? Not much, because any challenge is purely artificial. Playing Morrowind was, in my experience, like playing D&D alone, with yourself as the GM. I spent half the time in-game, and the other half trying to find a mod or tweak a setting to compensate for the pathetic lack of choice.

In a good game, there are tradeoffs. If Soccer was structured such that only forwards could score, but nobody was allowed to shoot on an undefended goal... any team with non-forwards would automatically lose, it would be a stupid game, and it would have died centuries ago. It's around today because it does not have stupid exploits that require you to play in a deliberately dumb way in order to provide an illusion of challenge for yourself. Oblivion did not have to include the same exploits - they could have learned from the person who modded it to remove them.

Games are self-enclosed. If you have to impose external rules on yourself to make them interesting (like going to the Olympics wearing lead shoes, going on "Who Wants to Be A Millionare" drunk and high, or playing Civilization without ever building buildings) then there is something fundamentally wrong with the game itself. In good games, people don't have to resort to such saboutage - they can unleash themselves and compete to the best of their ability. If I can't compete to the best of my ability, I'm not playing a game - I'm tutoring someone (like when I play ping-pong or raquetball left-handed, or "weakly"). I have no need to tutor someone when I'm alone.

[DominionsFan]

Saber, you never played with Oblivion but you are posting like if you would. Try it before you are making up these ideas. I am pretty sure that you will be amazed by the whole game...well if you dont like the leveling system etc. I cannot help you in that, but saying that the faces are ugly...that is just nonsense. These are the most realistic faces what I ever seen in any game, they are fantastic.

As for singe player games....I was playing WoW for months, but I still enjoy some singeplayer games much more. Dont forget theres a huge amount of players who do enjoy playing offline, and this is true about Dominions also.

[OG_Gleep]

Yes..thats it. Thanks IH.

Saber - Theres a difference between playing within the given ruleset, and abuse, and as you said, that is abusing the level system. That is akin to activating god mode in my book. Now, jumping up and down while you run to raise your skill = playing within the ruleset.

And everyone would jump on someone saying "I hate dominions, with unlimited pretender creation points, the game is too easy". If you have some wierd need to use exploits in every game...well...theres always an exploit in every game. The AI can't handle when the player does certain things, or say there is a flaw in the combat system that lets you not take damage....if you feel compelled to do these things, then you must hate SP games. Unfortunatley gamers will find these types of flaws in games, but your the first person who insisted that they must be used.

[Endoperez]

OG_Gleep said:
Saber - Theres a difference between playing within the given ruleset, and abuse, and as you said, that is abusing the level system. That is akin to activating god mode in my book. Now, jumping up and down while you run to raise your skill = playing within the ruleset.

It depends on how the game is balanced. I can see why she'd rather wait until the modders have improved the system. She seems to have very analytic mind, in that she understands what different formula and rules actually mean, and can come up with better ways to use those rules to her advantage. I can imagine it is harder to like games, if their flaws are more apparent.

SC didn't say that those flaws that exist must be used. She just said that she doesn't like doing that unless she is teaching someone else to do better, and in SP games, she shouldn't have to. A game should be a challenge. I woldn't compare that to cheating for unlimited design points, but to e.g. noticing that Vampire Queen is much more powerful as a combatant than as a rainbow pretender. The Illwinter guys hadn't thought of the Vampire Queen in the battlefield, and her cost was heavily increased in the following patch after her introduction. It could also be compared to using magical summons instead of national units. Not relying extensively on summons is not feasible in multiplayer DomII. The game wasn't meant to be played that way, but the game just works that way.

Mind you, she hasn't said that Oblivion is a bad game, just that it could be better. She also said:

But I'd rather miss "X" now and enjoy "3X" later than enjoy "X" now and miss "3X" later. I think you are eating pie dough because you can't wait for the pie