OT: Some of mankind's toughest questions

Renegade 13 · #1 May 8th, 2006, 02:33 AM

I, for one, believe we have free will. Then again, even if we do have free will, random events will always effect our lives in ways we can't predict, avoid or prevent. So in essence, even if we do have free will, randomness also controls our lives to a certain extent.

I really don't have any basis to believe we have free will, no evidence to prove one way or the other. The very nature of the question doesn't allow us to know the true answer. The real question is; does it matter if we do or we don't? After all, it seems to me as though we have free will, so if we don't it sure is well hidden

Therefore if it seems like we have free will, but we don't, is it really any different from actually having free will?

Atrocities · #2 May 8th, 2006, 02:44 AM

I have a question for God, why is it that some people always seem to be given the breaks in life. They have a job they love, they are healthy, they look great, they are rich, they have all that they can ever want and nothing bad, bad as in real world, ever seems to happen to them?

Why do I always get all the [censored] bad luck? Why not spread it around to some of these "life is so great" spoiled rotten richie rich types?

Why won't you let me meet a nice women that I can spend the rest of my life with that doesn't weigh 500 pounds, or insane, or out to screw me over? Why do I have to struggle when so many of my ideas have made others millions? WTF God?

No offense Lord, I would just like to know.

ZeroAdunn · #3 May 8th, 2006, 03:35 AM

Haven't you read the bibble AT? God is a dick....

Jack Simth · #4 May 8th, 2006, 03:44 AM

Ah, yes; you get all the [censored] bad luck. Sitting in front of your rather expensive computer, out of the rain, with a full belly, have all the [censored] bad luck. Of course. Because, you know, there aren't, say, children getting molested by their parents, or people getting tossed out on the streets, or starving to death..... you get all the [censored] bad luck. Of course you do. It's not like you're the one without any real-world problems. Roof over your head? Clothes on your back? Food in your belly as needed? Perspective.

The Bible doesn't usually list God's motives, but you might think of looking into One Group's Take on the subject.

My own understanding mostly boils down to "free will". People take actions, and actions have consequences - good, bad, and unintended, for the person who acted, for the person who didn't act, and for those not otherwise involved. When someone chooses to murder, that someone also chooses another to kill. When someone chooses to be indiscriminate in their relations, they choose to run the risks involved. Multiple people get similar ideas all the time - some choose to follow up, and some reap the rewards; others choose not to, and don't. Others enter into, and follow through on, agreements that are more advantageous to one party than the other. Occasionally someone betrays a trust. You refer to "let" - yet the specific criteria kinda implies "force" - be that motives, body type, or other choices; would you marry a robot with no choice but to follow it's programming? Would you want to live in a world where everyone was identical?

The world is as our collective choices shaped it, and of course, God gets the blame. Easy to blame someone you don't really know, and not have to put the face of your neighbors, your friends, your family, and yourself as the causes of your troubles, isn't it?

Hunpecked · #5 May 8th, 2006, 02:59 PM

AT: "Why do I always get all the [censored] bad luck? WTF God?

God: "Atrocities, there's just something about you that pisses me off!"

AT, for what it's worth, we all love you on this board; we just can't show it when God's around...

TurinTurambar · #6 May 8th, 2006, 04:43 PM

[PythonParaphrase]
"On second thought, let us not go to the Shrapnel Forum... it is a silly place."
[/Python]

Kamog · #7 May 8th, 2006, 11:53 PM

Sometimes I hear people say that humans are sentient but other animals are not. I don't understand how we could possibly know this. How can you tell the difference, for example, whether a dog is sentient or not?

If we agree that humans are sentient, I would argue that other animals are sentient also. But then we have the problem of where to draw the line. Are fish sentient? Are insects sentient? Are plants sentient? I would have to say that viruses and bacteria are too simple to be sentient, so which organisms are sentient and which are not?

Part of the problem is that we don't have a good definition of what "sentient" means, but the other part of the problem is that you could never know what another creature is thinking, whether it is self-aware or not, what thought processes it is going through.

Baron Munchausen · #8 May 9th, 2006, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Kamog said:
Sometimes I hear people say that humans are sentient but other animals are not. I don't understand how we could possibly know this. How can you tell the difference, for example, whether a dog is sentient or not?

If we agree that humans are sentient, I would argue that other animals are sentient also. But then we have the problem of where to draw the line. Are fish sentient? Are insects sentient? Are plants sentient? I would have to say that viruses and bacteria are too simple to be sentient, so which organisms are sentient and which are not?

Part of the problem is that we don't have a good definition of what "sentient" means, but the other part of the problem is that you could never know what another creature is thinking, whether it is self-aware or not, what thought processes it is going through.

Actually, 'sentient' means 'having senses' -- that is, a creature capable of experiencing its environment. Guess what? Plants are sentient. They recognize where sunlight comes from and turn their leaves to face it. That is proof of 'sentience' ... What people think this word means is 'self-aware' or 'intelligent'. It doesn't.

And yes, animals are smarter than we generally believe. They have just managed to prove that dolphins use individual names, for example.

http://today.reuters.com/News/newsAr...E-DOLPHINS.xml

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n..._dolphins.html

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science...whistles_x.htm

PvK · #9 May 10th, 2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Baron Munchausen said:
...
And yes, animals are smarter than we generally believe. They have just managed to prove that dolphins use individual names, for example.

Animals have more going on than cognitive science has gotten around to understanding and proving. Sensitive pet owners seem to be WAY ahead of cognitive science in understanding the animal mind. A few years ago, some German animal behaviorologists announced their amazing discovery, that a dog who has been told not to eat some food, and who does not eat that food when humans are in the same room, will go ahead and eat that food when the humans have left them alone in the room. Imagine that!

Atrocities · #10 May 8th, 2006, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Hunpecked said:
AT: "Why do I always get all the [censored] bad luck? WTF God?

God: "Atrocities, there's just something about you that pisses me off!"

AT, for what it's worth, we all love you on this board; we just can't show it when God's around...

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