Dom-III discussion at GalCiv

[WraithLord]

DominionsFAN said:
..and you can see posts like this in that forum:

"Master of Magic has better graphics, never cost 55$, and while the interface is somewhat behind the curve (it's at least 10-15 years old) it's still a lot more accessible and powerful than what I encountered when I tried to play the Dominions 2 demo a few months ago."

what can I say? no comment.


*edit*. I was just reading more posts. It seems that most of the Galciv2 people are complaining about the Doms 2. AI.
Example:

First claim is plain outrageous.

As to AI, no surprise there as GC-II has amazingly powerful AI. Dominions forte isn't it's AI or fgx, rather than it's depth, replaybility and (for me) charm.

[Morkilus]

I've run across some game-breaking retardedness in the GC2 campaign AI, such as enemy ships being built without weapons. I suppose it might be worth another shot with the update, but I don't really see the point when I can do other stuff that I know is fun.

[Archonsod]

Morkilus said:
I've run across some game-breaking retardedness in the GC2 campaign AI, such as enemy ships being built without weapons.

That's not retarded. The idea is to upgrade the design to one with weapons as soon as they become available . In the meantime, the ship will prevent you from invading a planet with a transport, unless you send warships in.I've even seen the AI build most of their fleet weaponless, only to upgrade when my ships were about to attack (thus rendering my carefully chosen armour useless against the lasers I never knew they had...).

Thing is, Dominions 2 doesn't really need a decent AI to make the game playable (and that's from someone who prefers single player over multiplayer). Remove the AI opponents from Dominions and you still have an intricate, detailed and fun game which plays differently everytime. Remove the AI from Gal Civ, and you no longer have a game. It's all about focus - Dominions' strength lies in it's depth and complexity. Gal Civ focuses more on the competition.

[Tyrant]

Interesting that they brought up MoM. When i'm proselatizing for DomII I always try to explain it as "Masters of Magic meets VGAP," but so far not one single person has known what i was talking about. I loved MoM, and always hoped they'd do an MP sequel. They didn't, but Illwinter stepped up to the plate and hit a homer.

As for he AI, <shrug>, who cares? Nearly all 'puter strategy games are SP. If they have MP at all it's an afterthought pasted onto a game system that's ill suited for it. Often games last hundreds of turns, or one strategy is clearly superior. Dom is a rare strategy game that's made for MP from the ground up. If i want to play an SP games and "solve" AIs there are hundreds to choose from. Dom is the best strategic MP game i've found by far, and I'd buy Dom3 even if it didn't have an AI at all.

That said, I'm confidently hoping the new AI will be better :>. I'm also pretty confident that after X games i will be able to crush it reliably.

[DominionsFan]

WraithLord said:

First claim is plain outrageous.

As to AI, no surprise there as GC-II has amazingly powerful AI. Dominions forte isn't it's AI or fgx, rather than it's depth, replaybility and (for me) charm.

Well I dont agree Wraith. Firstly, Galciv2 is a SP only game, so they focus on AIs. Secondly their so called AI is not working that good. I remember that I was playing Galciv 2. after like 2 patches, and the AI sucked still. It wasnt hard to beat 5 AIs on the hardest settings. The Galciv2 AIs are not bad, I wouldnt dare to say that, but surely not hard to beat for a human player. Now I tell you something more. I had harder times to win against the Doms 2. AIs then against the Galciv2 AIs. There were some Dom2 SP games for me, when I had a 4+ front war against the AIs and I lost. I never lost a single SP game in Galciv2. Why? Mainly because of diplomacy. Its fairly easy to turn an AI to your side and make an alliance. From that point you cant loose a game. Maybe this has been changed after more patches, but I seriously doubt that I would loose a Galciv2 game even now.

Well the Doms2 AI wasnt perfect, but it was good enough for the new players to practice before they play online.
As we know the Doms 3. AI will be better. I am also pretty sure that IW will upgrade the Doms 3. AI if it will be needed.

All in all, Im pretty disappointed that the Galciv2 players are bashing Doms 2. like this. Dominions 2. is much more complex then Galciv2. Thus its much harder to write an AI for Doms2, since the comp player must take care of many more different things. Oddly they forgot to mention this.

[Annette]

All in all, Im pretty disappointed that the Galciv2 players are bashing Doms 2. like this.

Don't worry too much about that. Any discussion is good discussion, and we're very appreciative that Brad started a thread about Dom 3 on his forums. He's a class-act. We hope those of you who haven't played GalCiv 2 will give it a go.

[baby_arm]

we're very appreciative that Brad started a thread about Dom 3 on his forums.

And had it on the front page no less. It's also worth noting what he wrote further in the thread:

I think Domininions 2 is the best fantasy strategy game that has ever been made. It has depth, it has expandability. And while some may not like the graphics, the entire game is easily moddable and third parties have made some incredibly cool stuff for it.

I have no doubt that Dominions 3 will be the same sort of thing. It's a great game.

I also am very certain that there is a significant subset of GalCiv II players who are likely to enjoy Dominions just as I think there's a lot of Dominions players who are likely to enjoy GalCiv.

But more to the point -- we're all on the same side here. Shrapnel and co. are our kind of people. We should do what we can to support them. The world is a better place with games like Dominions.

If fantasy strategy or hard core strategy games like Dominions aren't your cup of tea, that's fine. But I think it's a great game and the people who make it and the community around it is wonderful IMO.

edit: That's the best sort of endorsement I could imagine. I wonder what Sid Meier thinks of Dominions...

[Gandalf Parker]

Wow thats really cool. Ive always thought alot of brad but thats moved up another notch in my opinion.

[JaydedOne]

Brad said:

I think Domininions 2 is the best fantasy strategy game that has ever been made. It has depth, it has expandability. And while some may not like the graphics, the entire game is easily moddable and third parties have made some incredibly cool stuff for it.

I have no doubt that Dominions 3 will be the same sort of thing. It's a great game.

I also am very certain that there is a significant subset of GalCiv II players who are likely to enjoy Dominions just as I think there's a lot of Dominions players who are likely to enjoy GalCiv.

But more to the point -- we're all on the same side here. Shrapnel and co. are our kind of people. We should do what we can to support them. The world is a better place with games like Dominions.

If fantasy strategy or hard core strategy games like Dominions aren't your cup of tea, that's fine. But I think it's a great game and the people who make it and the community around it is wonderful IMO.

A class act indeed. Not many devs would glow like this about another dev's product, especially when Stardock has long been rumored to be interested in eventually following up on Master of Magic.

But he's right about the fact that these are exactly the games that the community needs to support. I bought both GalCiv 2 and Dom2 because of the fact that they were obviously works built with heart by smaller developers and released against odds in a market that's becoming more and more consolidated and accordingly less willing to challenge thinking gamers. Both games have a number of wrinkles that are easy to point out; but you'd expect that given the fact that they don't have a paid full-time QA team, to say nothing of the inability to pump tons of money into development of graphics, AI, etc. Frankly, I'm thrilled that they're as fantastic as they are and when I ask for improvements, it's with a deep respect for everything accomplished thus far.

[DominionsFan]

Yeah it was a very nice thing from Brad to post news like this about Doms 3.
Oh btw it seems that Brad is visiting these forums. ->

"..But I think it's a great game and the people who make it and the community around it is wonderful IMO..".