Vampires?

Nerfix · #1 October 26th, 2006, 06:20 AM

Vampires really aren't the problem, Vampire Queens are.

Amos · #2 October 26th, 2006, 07:18 AM

Any idea why ethereality was removed from an already weak creature?

Nerfix · #3 October 26th, 2006, 07:31 AM

Because Vampire Queens fit the Vampire template and ethearility on her was overpowered. Also, she could spawn ethereal life-draining flying monsters much easier than some nations could summon them or counters to them.

I don't mind Vampires getting their Ethereality removed, they however should have made them far less up in the research tree.

WraithLord · #4 October 26th, 2006, 10:40 AM

I like them better with ethereality, and I think VQ could have kept hers as well together with having her cost raised some more.

Nerfix · #5 October 26th, 2006, 10:54 AM

But then people would just take a biiiit more worse scales...

UninspiredName · #6 October 26th, 2006, 11:21 AM

I suppose the main draw for Vampires is that they keep coming back. And, since they can fly, you can just make them attack the rear mages. I do agree, though, they should be one or two levels lower... I really like Lords and Queens, though, but that's possibly because Death and Blood are my two favorite schools of magic. And, if you use Pale Ones like me, you really need fliers.

And yes, Vampires in D&D are really challenging. Our DM once talked of making a city of them as an adventure sight...

Nerfix · #7 October 26th, 2006, 11:31 AM

Nay, you need Magma Children, and then some more, and some Ancient Lords with Brimstone Boots and Charcoal Shields and Swords of Swiftness, and a bit more Magma Children and a King of Elemental Fire for the kicks, and a bit more Magma Children...

Cainehill · #8 October 26th, 2006, 01:10 PM

Quote:

WraithLord said:
I like them better with ethereality, and I think VQ could have kept hers as well together with having her cost raised some more.

With the Dom2 patches and CB mod, the VQ didn't seem particularly overpowered or underpriced anymore - one very rarely saw her used in CB games, and yet she was nerfed again, while All Father went back to uber-status.

Nerfix · #9 October 26th, 2006, 01:39 PM

Who exactly uses Allfather? He's not a W/F pretender now is he?

FrankTrollman · #10 October 26th, 2006, 02:35 PM

VQs were never that big of a deal!

There is a small, but extremely vocal group of Dominons 2 players who use VQs virtually exclusively and compare sizes a lot and complain about how broken they are. It flies and it is stealthy, and for a very specific strategy it is the only and therefore "best" option.

So the designers get bombarded with tirades about how brokenly powerful the Vampire Queen is, and they raised her price to 150. But the people using that strategy still couldn't use anything else so they still complained. And complained and complained and... you get the idea.

Vampire Queens aren't that good. They've never been that good. They weren't all that and a bag of chips when they were Ethereal and cost 125 points. They weren't all that when they were Ethereal and cost 150 points. And now they aren't even Ethereal and they cost 175! Vampire Queens are total crap and aren't good for anything.

Even in Dominions 2 you could get better scales, better dominion, and better magic with a Prince of Death. You could get better Ethereality and Magic with a Ghost King. The Vampire Queen's only meaningful advantage is that she's thematically awesome - especially for Black Forest Ulm.

But no. People complain and complain and complain... and now Black Forest can't have nice things. I hope you're happy.

-Frank